Is it reasonable that the people of Pandemonium dislike dogs as pets because of their genetics?

Question

The world of Pandemonium is a world in another universe where humans may exist, that is gravitationally connected to Earth in our universe. Over the course of history since the big bang, these universes have periodically collided, transferring organised matter from one to the other, including humans... and other animals, including dogs.

On Pandemonium, the science of genetics surpassed that of our society long ago, and genetic transhumanism has become the norm, in order to adapt the humans that live there to their alien environment.

However, while dogs are a popular pet in many nations of earth, I wanted to have dogs be unpopular as pets on Pandemonium. The rationale that I came up with is that despite dogs being easily bred to have a wide variety of traits on earth, and the people of Pandemonium being expert genetic engineers, the following problems exist with dogs in the view of Pandemonians:

• Dogs are dangerous large pack predators that attack and kill humans too frequently.

• Dogs are unclean.

• Dogs are noisy

• Dogs are only suited to be working animals in industries such as security, policing and farming.

Of course, these reasons are reason enough for a society to reject dogs as pets for the most part, since it can be so because I say it is so, and we have real-world examples of societies that are biased against dogs. However, that's not the point of this question.

• Dogs can easily be genetically engineered to have many different traits, but their essential 'doggishness' cannot easily be removed.

I wanted this to be the primary reason why dogs are not pets Historically, the Pandemonian genetic engineers couldn't change dogs so that they were no longer dangerous, filthy, or noisy without breaking the ineffable something that makes a dog a dog. They did produce things from dogs that make good pets, but they weren't Canis familiaris any more. The genetic engineers can now genetically engineer dogs as required to make 'good pets' without having to make them into a new species, but the longstanding prejudice against dogs still exists, and they'd be ridiculed or censured for trying.

Is this genetic engineering problem a reasonable justification for "Dogs aren't Pets" on Pandemonium, or am I barking up the wrong tree?

Answer 1

I can't but feel it needs to be two things. Slight early cultural difference AND genetic manipulation issues.

I am imagining scenario, where during one of your collisions a Paleolithic dog (Canis c.f. familiaris) was transferred, partially domesticated, but not enough to immediately see the benefits. As other animals already fill the dog's role. So instead it is left to its devices, but is widely known as a wild dog, with which they have relationship like we with wolves (that is, chasing them away or outright hunting them).

When the genetic engineering became dominant, scenario as you described occurred, where they were tried and failed to turn it into a "good pet", at the same time other animals were successfully turned into suitable household pets. This early failure, when compared with successes with other animals, stigmatizes the dog as a useless animal.

When the actual Canis familiaris which is just a stone throw away from being a great pet by the optics of your wold appears during next collisions. Nobody wants to really deal with it anymore because of the stigma with the species, that resembles it way too closely for comfort.

Answer 2

Those aren't dogs, they're wolves. Kinda.

There is a bunch of discussion about the correct classification of dogs, wolves and dingos - Some folks put them all under Canis lupus, with the domestic dog being Canis lupus familiaris, while others split them at the species level between Canis lupus and Canis familiaris. This discussion exists because, while dogs and wolves are very different behavior and appearance wise, they can breed true - and their hybrids can produce offspring, which seems to indicate that they are from the same species. Whatever it might be the case, the proper classification of dogs and wolves is a complicated thing. What counts for us is that the animals are genetically close.

This is useful story-wise, as we can make it so that the genetic manipulation necessary to make the dog sturdy and able to survive in Pandemonium also makes it more wolf-like, bringing back a lot of instincts and behaviors of old that were weeded out in the domestication process - specifically, the hunting aspect.

Pandemonium dogs are primarily pack hunters, as their earthling ancestrals were. They can be used as work animals, as security, and even as service animals if properly trained, but they are still very prone to chew down a throat or two if they get upset for some reason. They are adapted to this new place, and this makes them look more like demonic wolves than proper dogs - which make them poor pets, unfortunately.

Some of the breeds might even be born with three heads. Go figure. Genetics are weird.

Answer 3

I think that these reasonings make sense, and are internally consistent, but one thing to note is that there are humans who keep racoons or any number of other socially-stigmatized animals as pets. If the sapients of Pandemonium are similar to humans in this way, then there may be small groups or even dedicated pan-wide-web communities insistent that non-GMO canis familiaris are amazing household animals.

Answer 4

Many societies dislike dogs for a variety of reasons already.

Dogs are one of the few creatures that will mate with it's siblings or indulge in inter-generational incest quite happily right in front of you.

Many societies view dogs as food, others as workers. Some as both. Not everyone see's them as pets.

Answer 5

It's completely unreasonable. In one statement you state they have surpassed us in the field of genetics and then state they can't do what we pretty much have done now. Your four statements aren't defining characteristics of dogs and could all be bred out and still have a dog. A small, mute, hairless dog bred to excel at finding cancer, doesn't check any of your boxes, but I would consider it a dog. Ultimately I think they category of dog is just to wide to say a master geneticist couldn't alter significant traits and have it not be a dog. It would be fine to have it just be an arbitrary dislike, but would feel like a stretch to say they lack the ability to breed out a handful of traits.

Answer 6

Body Language

These are all good reasons not to like dogs. But they do not work in the real world, so it's hard to believe they work in the fictional world. At least without some other ingredient.

For that, I suggest the demon people simply do not recognize the body language and facial expressions of a dog. To a pandemon, the above picture is no more appealing than this:

Dogs and pigs are about as smart as each other. They can both make good pets. The key difference is dogs have more body language in common with humans. That's why we prefer dogs to pigs.

I suggest dogs do not share the same body language with pandemons. So they treat dogs the same as they treat pigs. As loud, filthy, smelly, dangerous animals.

Answer 7

They dont stop barking

Dogs have a very good developed sense of smell and are sometimes used to detect various deceased, simply by smelling people.

Now you have altered people, not made by nature. It might work for us just fine, but the dog just go crazy because something is wrong.

Just imagine that high pitch rodent repeller, you know that one that tears your brain in two when it goes of, all day long. You'd loose your calm too. That, but for the dogs the smell equivelant.

Smelling is a core dog feature, turning that off ment they dont smell food anymore and simply starve, something the Pandamies just cant figure out how to fix.

Answer 8

Dogs have an exceptionally sensitive nose. Which is how some can be trained to smell cancerous cells, drug smuggling or explosives.

Perhaps one of the popular gene mods in Pandemonium make humans produce a smell that triggers some pheromone responses in dogs. If it were as simple as "I'm a bitch in heat", then neutering male dogs would be sufficient, but it is possible that there are other pheromones that would require far more invasive or morally repugnant treatments for dogs (like nose-removal that makes every dog's nose like a pug's nose). One SF tale that might give you ideas in this direction would be The Screwfly Solution.

Answer 9

It's the dogs that don't like Pandemonians

Dogs are naturally aggressive creatures that have over the course of thousands of years been breed not just to get along with humans, but to protect thier masters from other humans. Dogs can sense when a person is planning to do something bad to thier master because we get an elevated adrenaline levels that don't correspond with thier body language. When a Human has elevated adrenaline but looks calm, it makes thousands of years of carefully breed protective instincts kick in making the dog bark or even attack the untrustworthy intruder.

However, the Pandemonians have engineered themselves to be faster, tougher, and stronger than Terrans resulting in a higher resting adrenaline level. This makes them all come off as untrustworthy all the time to dogs; so, instead of bonding with their Pandemonian caretakers, they always treat them as dangerous outsiders.

Answer 10

Not genetics, because you say they are more or less masters of that art, and it would be admitting a defeat if they cannot engineer themselves around that kind of problem. There has to be some other reason, possibly something that pertains to their nature.

Maybe they think that having dogs, or pets in general, is too childish, a thing that puny humans do - having one is like an adult sucking on a pacifier, or an adult playing with a doll.

Answer 11

It seems unreasonable that it would be for genetics that they don't like dogs, especially for a species that are masters of genetic engineering.

Most of the traits you and others have listed for why people may dislike dogs are things that humans have already worked around... we have hypoallergenic breeds, quiet breeds, docile breeds, etc... while it takes a lot of time and desire to breed a species the way we have with dogs, it would be world breaking to me to just say it's because of their genes. Most readers will be able to see what reality has achieved with dogs and the idea that dogs are genetically 'bad' or unworkable will shatter suspension of disbelief.

I think you're more on course by looking at reasons people don't like dogs: they smell, they're dangerous, they're predators. This also gives you lots of room to world build and develop your Pandemoniums(?) and their culture. Consider other reasons that people don't like dogs, and also consider things that dog lovers dislike about dogs, and find ways to build out the culture of Pandemonium around these traits.

You've already established that they're noisy and smelly. Do you know why? Dogs are pursuit predators. They use their odor and noise to scare prey and control the direction that the prey flees so they can drive the prey into other packmates or dead ends. Wolves will take turns making noise once they've cornered prey to keep the prey from resting and in a state of constant fear, which is very draining. They do this until the prey is thoroughly exhausted, and then they strike when it's weak. There's a lot of cultural baggage you could unpack from there, based on the culture and environment. Maybe Pandemonium has other, larger apex predators and so stealth is of the utmost importance. Maybe Pandemoniums developed a culture around solo combat and pitting one's strength against challenges to prove one's worth and so see pursuit predation and pack tactics as cowardly.

You use some very nebulous terms like "good pets", but that's incredibly subjective, even in reality. I'm a dog person. I have known people who hated my pets, but enjoyed lizards. Lizards mostly just sit in a terrarium under a lamp. You don't really interact with them much. These people find this ideal as they value independence and cleanliness: the lizard needs minimal interaction and it's mess stays within it's terrarium. Conversely, dogs require attention. They are pack animals and without regular social interaction, they suffer. Most "bad dogs" that you hear about (violent, obnoxious, ill behaved) suffer from not getting their social and mental needs met. My dogs require attention and exercise daily. I have to schedule my life around being able to return home to let them outside to do their business, and I can't go more than a day or two without taking them on a long walk or half an hour of fetch in the yard. These are things that are intrinsic to dogs as social animals and would be extremely hard to breed out. It is possible... there are more independent breeds (like Shiba Inu), though they will never be the sort you could put in a terrarium and ignore. Thus, the lifestyle of Pandemonium could greatly affect the compatibility. Long hours in a lab without interruption, or multi-day trips way from home would both strongly discourage dog ownership.

On the other hand, one of the biggest things that dog lovers (and cat lovers, honestly) hate about their pets is their lifespan: dogs live between 8 and 16 years, depending on breed and size. The bigger the dog, the shorter the lifespan (generally speaking) and wild wolves have even shorter lifespans due to injury and competition and lack of healthcare. Cats are more on the order of 16 - 20. There are exceptions, but 90% of the species falls in this range. Humans are much longer lived. This is one of the cruelest aspects of having dogs or cats, that it feels like just as you're starting to get to know them, have them trained how you like... they die. This is a thing that could maybe be enhanced with advanced genetic science, but it would be after thousands of years of association. Their lifespan isn't such that they just break one day, either, they decline slowly with time. Most dogs will peak around 5 years of age, and begin to decline. Past 10, they slow down and start to struggle. The last few years of an animal's life, if you're a responsible owner, is often spent caring for them in declining health. This involves watching your friend break down, and usually involves all manner of unpleasant smells and bodily fluids and culminates in heartbreak. I begrudge no one who looks at that and says "I think i'll take a lizard thank you". Other pets like birds and lizards have better lifespans. African Grey Parrots often need to be written into wills as they regularly outlive their owners. It would not be difficult to create a culture that views this and thinks, "ha, how weak and feeble," though do expect that this would make most readers react negatively (so, great if you want people to find them somewhat arrogant or villianous).

Another challenge of dogs, one that is a harsh reality not often discussed in survival fiction, is feeding them. Cats and dogs both are carnivores. Dogs are more omnivorous (and this is a highly contentious topic that often starts arguments), but the mutations (specifically the AMY2B gene) that enhance real world dogs ability to process carbohydrates (via the enzyme amylase) is something that differentiates them from wolves and likely evolved from living with humans and eating our left overs. As such, depending on the food practices and preferences of Pandemonium, carnivorous pets might be challenging to keep or even morally offensive. We don't know enough about them culturally to say, but if their diet is based more on vegetables, nuts, and seeds.. then a dog (especially a more wolf like dog) would be very challenging to keep fed.