What would be the most effective melee weapon against heavily armored opponent?

Question

In my world front line assaults are done with Mechanized Assault Vehicles, or MAVs. They are kind of like the vehicles in the Mecha universe, but more armor than weapon, more humanoid, than purpose built. Think Pacific Rim only on half the size and not requiring double piloted mind sync blah blah blah.

They have projectile and energy type ranged weapons, but these can be absorbed long enough for an opponent to get in close due to recharge and reload times. They can be devestating in the right hands. But there is a class of pilot preferring heavy armor and a melee type weapon to get in close and beat the opponent into submission.

I've read this post on the best melee weapon for a super strength wielder and this post regarding why a giant mech would wield one. My question is what type of melee weapon would work best against this type of vehicle, wielded by a similar vehicle? Something pointed, something blunt, both, neither, energy variant, rocket assisted, mechanized like a cutting wheel?

Assume the vehicles are agile enough to perform hand to hand combat and do not suffer the same way humans do from blunt force trauma. Assume, that a MAV specialized for melee combat could be heavier for stability or even have stabilizing enhancements "bolted on". Assume that weapons wielded by humans have little affect on a MAV.

Answer 1

You can view this as a future-analog of knights wearing armor, and it that context it really depends on the circumstances of the fight, but traditionally the best melee weapons against hard-armor have been maces and mauls.

Blades are designed to cut flesh and other soft material, and do not preform well against hard armor. They will simply blunt or become 'caught' (bind) in the armor as the surface contact area grows with more penetration. At longer sword ranges its also not going to be the easiest to thrust into a weak point on an enemy with all the dodging and movement both parties are going to be preforming. Against a mired opponent where you have mobility, a blade/dagger in a chink of armor can be effective, but in a stand up fight, you generally are not going to be able to get that close to someone without them able to take a swing with their full sized weapon.

I don't know if most other melee weapons are applicable; it's hard to imagine a phalanx of mechs walking around with halberds. Guns and Cruise missiles take the place of arrows and siege weapons respectively.

A mace, maul, or other blunt weapon functions by damaging the armor itself, denting and deforming it. This is effective because one is destroying what's under the armor without having to pierce the armor. This is particularly bad because hard armors will STAY dented and deformed, regardless of the mushy bits inside them that get deformed. In humans this is flesh, in mechs this could be any number of things.

Answer 2

An Explosive Polearm

Historically, Polearms were a quick (and safe) method of killing armored opponents. You're given good range for a melee weapon, and the pointed spike at the end provides good armor penetration.

Problem is, unlike a human a mech won't bleed out just because you put a hole in it. You need to damage its internals. This is where the explosives come in - Just behind the tip install reloadable shaped charges, napalm jets, plasma torches, whatever you want. Once the head of the polearm has penetrated the armor, you trigger the payload sending shrapnel, fire, or metal-melting heat into the sensitive internals of a mech.

It's actually a good terror-weapon if you scale it down to human size. Imagine being stabbed in the gut with a thermite-loaded knife - belching thousand degree flames out of every orifice while being quickly pyrolized from the inside out sounds like a bad deal.

Answer 3

My first thought is mace, however it doesn't sound like it'd be too effective...in knight terms, a mace breaks bones regardless of armour and or shield. But your question goes around this...so next best weapons vs armour.

Picks (think mining tool). To penetrate armour, you want to take the force of a blow and concentrate it on a single point that is as small as possible. To that extent, a well balance 'war pick' will put a small hole in the outside of the armour and driving the pick head into the more delicate internals of the MAV. A downside here is picks tend to get stuck in an opponent...though it's also an upside as you now have your opponent on a stick.

Axes also work to a similar extent (and it's always a great line to "tear your opponent a new axehole")...however this takes the force of the strike and balance it out over more of a line. The end result here is a much larger tear, however less likely to dive deep into internals like a pick.

Fortunately these two weapons combine...a pick on one side and an axe on the other.

Answer 4

When I was reading this question I thought of the AT-AT walkers from StarWars. They were huge, heavily armored, and for their size and purpose, lightly weaponized. With this in mind, I think the best way to handle something with heavy armor and light weaponry is to find a way to immobilize it.

For that reason, for the melee weapon, I'm picturing a giant magnetic flail that can detach and extrude multiple long chains with magnetic attachments. If you can get the MAV's legs tied/magnetized together, you have time to methodically attack it however you wish, while it can only rely on it's light weaponry to defend itself.

Answer 5

The best weapon is a technique.

Simply, anything that knocks them over, or impairs the legs. In the cases of humanoid forms, getting back upright from a prone position is a process that involves lots of difficult, precise, balanced movements, compounded exponentially by the weight of limbs and bodies. Especially if there is a lack of something to brace against.

Unless your tech base is insanely advanced, and powerful, you can forget using a kip-up.

Automated up-right protocols or mechanisms will cause a lag where the pilot is either not mobile, not able to shoot or attack, or both. Delay is deadly in combat.

In the case of quadruped mecha, you'll have to impair one or two legs to be effective, depending on power to weight ratios. Damaging the joints, or immobilizing them might be the most effective course.

Wheeled and tracked mecha are still vulnerable to the wheels and tracks.

In all cases watch out for ranged weaponry.

Once the mecha is down, almost any weapon would do, but for the record, simplicity is best. Wield in, or attach, a blade wedge to the striking limb of the attacking mecha, might take out the joint as part of the trip attempt.

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Depending on the style of locomotion, a bolo might work nicely.

A maul would always work quite handily as well.

Answer 6

Is a bucket full of napalm a melee weapon?

Don't attack the armored vehicle.
Attack its cooling system. That is usually any machine's weakest link.

Answer 7

The Kasurigama

The Kasurigama was a ninja weaponn consisting of a kama (the Japanese equivalent of a sickle) on a kusari-fundo – a type of metal chain (kusari) with a heavy iron weight (fundo) at the end. The kusarigama is said to have developed during the Muromachi period.

Attacking with the weapon usually entailed swinging the weighted chain in a large circle over one's head, and then whipping it forward to entangle an opponent's spear, sword, or other weapon, or immobilizing his arms or legs. This allows the kusarigama user to easily rush forward and strike with the sickle

The last point is where it shines against all other weapons, if you wrap the chain around an enemies legs and pull, you will be able to easily kill any armored opponent, in fact this one of the ways ninjas killed samurai.

Answer 8

The best weapon against a heavily armored opponent of any size would be a weapon that is able to bypass that armor. Historically, that weapon has been a knife.

Knives aren't for stabbing through someone's armor, but rather for stabbing around it. Anything that moves is going to have some sort of weak spot, usually in the joints. A knife is small and quick enough to exploit these weak spots and deliver pain where it's least desired.

Now, as for how you're going to get in close without being killed by your opponent, that's a different matter. You'll probably need a 'primary' weapon for countering their weapon, but your main objective with this weapon will be to either disarm or incapacitate your enemy and give yourself enough time to stab them with the knife. What that means is that your primary weapon doesn't actually have to be all that dangerous; you can use something that is just as quick and maneuverable as your knife, rather than a massive, slow weapon that could pierce armor but might get you killed before you can strike with it.

So I propose two weapons; one for blocking and incapacitating, and one for precision strikes. Move fast, overwhelm the enemy, and strike where they're most vulnerable.

Answer 9

It really depends on the situation. In urban or similar close-quarter fights, I'd recommend a warpick, similar to the one in the image below: the hammer end can be useful, as Marky said, to deform the plating; the main advantage of the weapon though, is its other end. With it your mech can target specific areas, like the pilot seat, or the engine, and penetrate with relative ease, since the area of impact is very small.

In more open scenarios I'd go for the polearm version, either a halberd (the blade could prove itself useful against less armored opponents, say, simple infantry) or a bec de corbin, which was designed specifically to deal with heavily armed opponents. The added advantage of these weapons is of course their range. The longer shaft also allows the wielder to deliver more powerful blows.

Answer 10

Glue. There are experiments with subtlethal weapons that tried goo guns but found they were too lethal, posing a serious risk of suffocation. (Oh, and this.)

Use quick setting 2-part mix that includes a “blowing agent” so it turns into highly expanded foam, formulated to be very sticky and cure to a soft rubber.

If the goo can work into the joints as it expands, so much the better! So have it cure faster where it is open air so it tries to expand inward.

A round of expanding foam to the feet and lower legs will immobilize the armored opponent. Any attempt to free himself will just get his arms and armaments stuck together too.

Answer 11

What you ask reminds me heavily of Pulse-sword from the Dune sequel universe, used by the Ginaz Swordmasters. These are energetic swords that disrupt electronic devices when they touch it. Humans use it to fight machines in close-combat. This would be obviously a good option, since the heavy armor you describe seems to be way too solid to be destroyed by brute force. The weapon itself is a sword with a scrambler on it, that delivers an impulse of energy when it hits something, disrupting all circuits in that zone.

I also think about the energetic gauntlet of the Warhammer 40K universe. The big mek could have one big gauntlet in one hand, and after grabbing his opponent, could release a tremendous wave of energy to literally burn the mek pilot inside his armor and disrupts all devices.

Anyway, I wouldn't use brute force to deal with these guys. I'd rather find a way to kill the pilot inside the mek without having to destroy the heavy armor. You could use "tesla-like" weapons to disable vitals system or electrocute the pilot, use a magnetic wave resonator to heat up the metal and burn the pilot inside, use short-range frontal EMP transmitter to confuse and/or disable the captors of the big mek...

Flamethrowers would be a good idea if they can heat up the mek quickly enough to neutralize the pilot before getting in contact.

The foam that was used in some riots that solidifies instantly could be pretty good too : you spray the big mek with that foam and it can't move anymore.

High energy weapon like super-concentrated laser or plasma gun would be good too, but I don't know the level of technology in your book. It could easily heat up the mek or even penetrate the armor.

To me the less epic thing but the most efficient/less expensive is the foam that solidifies : you spray it in the joints or on the head where all the captors are or on the pilot window if the mek is old school and it's over. If the pilot can't see/move, it's over for him. But I find the gauntlet/sword thing much more epic but less realistic. In conclusion, don't try to deal with the armor the brutal way. Try to incapacitate/immobilize the mek, or incapacitate/kill the pilot inside.

Answer 12

Morning star, but not the ones that are described in the fantasy genre. Morning stars are huge spiked maces. The advantage is being heavy it can pack a punch but with that punch, instead of deforming, which can be countered by modern reactive armor, it has spikes that pierces and continues to the vital parts. For your case, the spikes should be long and the weapon should be quite heavy.

Answer 13

Going with the napalm weapon idea, a molotov cocktail might work. Essentially a whiskey bottle with kerosene, oil, a rag and a stopper. The kerosene will burn quickly and light the oil. Once the oil starts burning water won't put it out. Hence, you would take out the cooling system. Just hit the vehicle where the cooling system is. It worked when Russia was invading Czechoslovakia.

Answer 14

Depends on the Armour. I'd actually go for entanglement over stabbing, slashing or stomping here. A immobile opponent is a vulnerable opponent. These would compliment not replace traditional weapons.

The first weapon that comes to mind is a bola. Launchable via a standard projectile or missile weapon launcher, the goal of such a weapon would be to bind limbs to the main body of the mecha or otherwise snarl up the workings. Rather than relying on pure mechanical wrapping, these might have some strong adhesive that sticks to armour, and many strong, thin lines for maximum chaos.

Likewise, a sticky net launcher might work.

While in the vein, a giant glue gun would be amusing a immobilized or otherwise impeded opponent would still be potentially combat effective. A conventional physical weapon relies on the momentum of the wielder to do damage so I wouldn't consider them to be useful.

A weaponised jackhammer on the other hand would be able to strike consistantly and with a good amount of force over a narrow, aimed area. With sufficent skill, you could use the hardened steel tip to crush or even dismantle parts of an enemy mech, arms, legs and so on.

Another weapon that wouldn't rely on the momentum of the carrier would be a bangalore mine, or in this case, a bangalore lance. Tip with a shaped charge (for piecing or cutting), thermal lance or even a dummy tip for setting off reactive armour.

Answer 15

I think the best weapon may be the simplest, an array of long, thick, steel rods.

If you're charging, it can be couched like a lance and bring a large portion of the momentum of your mech to bear on a small point of your enemy's armour, this can deform the armour, pinching hydraulics, damaging cooling systems, mechanical encumbrance, maybe even causing electrical shorts.

In closer combat, one could be wielded defensively as a staff. The goal being to disengage until it can be used as a powerful thrusting weapon, or perhaps as an oversized club for lightly-armoured extremities.

Answer 16

Mattock.

One side has a point like a pickaxe, but very heavy duty - good for jamming into a joint to immobilize it or a seam to pop it. Other side has a blade like a hoe, only sturdier. A seam, once popped with the pick, can be opened with this side and the protected contents destroyed.

Answer 17

A net. Shoot a net at them. Foul their arms and legs. They can't aim, they can't run. They fall over. Then, per another answer, plasma torch the pilot. After the battle, salvage the machine. It won't be damaged very much.

Damage tanks' tracks was a standard first step when infantry needed to destroy one.

Answer 18

Don't go for mechanized ones. There is a reason you never see a chainsaw on battlefield. More than one. Easy to damage wielder, easy to break or jam. That's not what you're looking for.

Now there are two options.

1. Pilot is protected with good shock absorbers. - if so, you will either use a sword and go for joints and places where armor plates connect, or for something long, strong and pointy, to have at least some chance to penetrate armor.

2. No shock absorption or not good enough - go for blunt and heavy. Undamaged mech with unconscious or dead pilot is good prize. You can use it, salvage, whatever. Sure you don't need it destroyed, you only need it not fighting and removing pilot is probably enough.

Answer 19

With a water laser you could amputate the head of the enemy mecha then dismember it apart with bare hands until you find the pilot and crush or capture it... that depends on your diplomacy. pieces of the dismembered mecha can be recycled by your army...

Other options are to put some chains that can be pulled back by some strong pistons,Your mecha could chase the enemy mecha, chain it then keep it pushed down to the ground until a squad of engineers comes to open the enemy mecha and capture/kill the pilot.

This would also allow for your army to steal the enemy mecha along with it's bullets,missiles and combustible. I mean why destroy when you can steal?

Another option is to use plasma torches,you can just boil the pilot inside then steal the mecha....between both plasma torches and water lasers will be incredibly short ranged and need you to have direct contact with the enemy mecha.

That implies the use of complicated and strength based hand to hand techniques.

Answer 20

It's been mentioned in a few comments and briefly touched on in some of the other answers. Plasma. What came to mind for me when I read the question was a weaponised plasma torch of some kind. After examiining the other answers, I would think that an armored gauntlet with a number of plasma torches (similar to the kind used to cut and shape hard metals for manufacturing, incidentally.) could be a finisher weapon for close ranges. You could grip and pull at armor plating, maybe even completly dismember an enemy mech with the plasma effect added onto it.

My ideal melee build for this kind of mech would wield a plasma gauntlet in one hand, and a large basic mace or axe in the other hand. Close the distance with a sprint and stun or knock over the enemy mech with a strike from the axe or mace, then follow up by latching onto a critical area with the plasma claw, before ripping and rending their mech to pieces with bursts of cutting plasma from the gauntlet assisted by continued strikes from the offhand axe or mace.

Answer 21

Perhaps something overlooked in this situation is making the most of the technology, which is why I propose:

The Chain Whip

The Chain Whip is the ideal weapon in terms of delivering an incredibly high amount of force in a small area. The stature and (more importantly) computer-targeting functionality of the Mechanized Assault Vehicle would be able to use this weapon very effectively.

The size of it's limbs could be leveraged to hurl the spike at an extreme velocity, and the target would be struck with pin-point accuracy directly in it's weak spot - whether that'd be it's CPU, fuel source, pilot seat, leg joints, weapon targeting system, etc.

And of course, the utility of a chain whip is something to marvel at as well; Tie a truck to the end? now you have a flail! Get it stuck in the enemy MAV? drag 'em around. Missile coming at ya? You know what to do.

And really, what's cooler? A pile of metal, or a stylish whip that breaks the sound barrier and rips apart your foes?

Answer 22

I like all of these. Can we have it all? I am imagining a hammer type weapon with a face like one of these. The surface scanning tech would analyze what was about to be hit and optimize for damage. Spiked if flat, waffle headed if glancing, wedged if there is a chink. The operator need only swing it.

I also felt the need to expound on what @nijineko said. Your ranged weapons should not be offensive for this mech. They should be of a trapping or disabling nature. Chains, freezing, EMP, tesla, harpoon, bolo, sticky, etc. Then speed in for your melee kill.

Answer 23

Most mechs have to constantly manage heat, especially with regard to using weapons. Use this to your advantage, install enough heat sinks around your pilot to keep him alive.

Have a forward facing heat exhaust that you can crank the output on, by overloading your reactor, for example:

Run up and jump on them, flip your reactor into overdrive and cook them alive while you're entangled... once they go limp (you've cooked the pilot), you've now got two mechs.

Mechanized thermal headcrabs.

Answer 24

Similar to what Sconibulus said above, I would go with thick heavy rods.

One thing you can do with something heavy and pointed is penetrate armour. Penetrate it enough, and you 'pin' it to the ground. Without some kind of articulated arms, it's not going anywhere. Essentially mission-killed.

Answer 25

This may not help overly much for MAV on MAV fights, but I've written scenes with highly mobile humans taking on much larger armoured vehicles (basically quadrupedal MAV's) by attaching a shaped charge to knee joints to immobilize them, then once the target is stuck in one place attaching a rocket propelled 'kill-drill' pointed at vitals. The drill is pushed inwards by the rocket, (also making a handy plasma torch to impair removal) while rotating drillheads grind it ever further inwards. You could adapt this to your own MAV's by having them slap the highly adhesive drill directly onto an enemy as it moves through a group, leaving chaos and dismay in its wake.

After it's thoroughly wounded its enemies it could wade back in with a warhammer to finish off immobile and damaged enemies. This would require a very fast moving melee mech however, which may not work with your in-universe limitations.

Answer 26

modified electric eels that can craw into gaps in the armor seek out electronics and zap it. If it could lay eggs and grow inside so much the better. Which brings up the nanobots that eat and reproduce to then go to another and destroy it as well.

Answer 27

I'd borrow an idea from Larry Niven's universe:

The Anemone (IIRC), a close-range weapon, pretty much a belly gun. The wielder gets close enough to put the muzzle on the enemy and fires.

This launches bunch of super-strong coils (of "molecular wire" iirc) pressed under high tension, cutting through the enemy's body. But it's not done.

Once out of its canister (and while traveling inside the enemy's body), it finally has a change to expand, explosively.

The coils (of aforementioned "molecular wire") expand, cutting and dicing through the opponent's body.

Now, going back to mech territory, if one could imagine a type of "molecular wire" that can cut through mech armor, a mech driver that could get within melee distance could have an "anemone" weapon on its fists, and punching on its enemy could activate/fire the coils through and inside the enemy's equipment.

Answer 28

Assuming that some part of the mech is made out of ferrous materials then an induction heater could do quite well by fusing joints or overloading the cooling system and just cooking the pilot alive.