Where should we store our brains?

Question

I'm creating a story in which (almost) all of the world's now 10 billion people have voluntarily become "brains in jars." Considering that almost the entire population has chosen to do so, leaving nobody to take care of the brains except the computers (which are plenty capable of doing so), where is the best place to put the facility?

It will need to be fairly large, since 10 billion brains, the computers emulating reality, the life support systems, etc. take up a LOT of space. Also, it will need to last a long time, since brains in jars last longer than brains in humans, and the people may be able to reproduce, creating more brains in jars and allowing mankind to live on for a long time.

Edit: Location is not a problem, because the brains' reality is fully emulated by the computers. Nobody cares where their brain actually is, as long as it's safe.

Answer 1

Ok, brains in jars, we can do this!

First, brains need to be safe and protected. This rules out leaving them in people's homes

Second, brains can't maintain themselves. So let's not put them in space because the upkeep (realigning and repairs) is going to be exorbitant for the size we're talking about.

So we're talking somewhere safe, on the earth.. let's have a look for the most geological stable country, Antarctica! Pretty cold, but you don't need to worry about those pesky volcanoes and earthquakes... But maybe shipping is a concern? Do we need to grow food? Also it's pretty chill down there. Maybe we need to spread out our brains over the world..

• In north America, Canada looks pretty good.

• Europe, looks pretty good all over, can't find a decent link but stuff round the north sea seems pretty stable

  • Asia, let's get up into the tundra

  • Africa, South Africa seems the best bet

  • Oceania, Australasia - get to Australia, big old chunk of landmass

Answer 2

Inside 1.5 million robotic whales

A blue whale has a volume of around 220 cubic metres. Assuming a cubic brain jar with sides of 25cm, you can comfortably fit 32 brains in one cubic metre. If you built an aquatic robot about the size of a blue whale you could fit 7,040 human brains inside it.

The robotic whale could swim through the oceans, capturing oxygen from the water for its brains, and filter-feeding on krill and plankton like biological whales to provide the nutrition for the brains. Advantages of this are that it's a decentralised system, and that by being deep underwater, you're helping to solve some of the overheating problems you might face on land.

Doing the maths, to house the 10 billion brains you mention, we'd need 1,420,454 whales carrying 7,040 brains each. This may sound like a lot of robotic whales, but, for context, the global whale population has probably declined by that much since 1900.

Answer 3

It would not be a good idea to have just one facility. That's just asking for an asteroid strike, freak weather, or an "impossible" series of equipment failures to wipe it out. On the other hand, dispersing into too many facilities will be inefficient.

Also, while brains in jars probably need less resources in an absolute sense than people in bodies - less food, oxygen, etc. - they are very dependent on their support facility working correctly. They have a lot less ability to cope with the environment being unfavourable for a short while, because they lack a personal self-regulating brain-support system, otherwise known as a body. So you need a reasonably large number of high-reliability facilities.

Then there's an emotional factor. Many people will probably like the idea of their brain-jar being in a location they are fond of, even if this makes little practical difference. They may well be able to "be" anywhere they like via teletourism, but the speed of light still applies, and a round-trip for signals to the other side of the world via fibre-optic cable will take something like 0.2 seconds, which is enough to notice if you're doing anything physical and interactive.

So there will probably be a few hundred facilities around the world, and they may even be named after cities and regions, although the value of putting them in old cities is probably low.

Answer 4

Why?

But really. "Why" to do it also answers where to do it.

Cosmic catastrophe that made surface uninhabitable

Or rather - soon will make? In this case we want to make shelters deep underground. But there isn't enough time to make comfortable sleeping quarters for everyone, or enough food. So just store our brains and balls! Because, you know, we need babies, too.

In this case, we want to go deep underground in seismically stable regions.

Brain in jar can live longer

Imagine new cure that will make brain virtually immortal, or last for centuries, but at the same time will not prevent body aging, or even be prevented from working by body. Rich people that are not yet too old would want their brains removed and preserved.

Here, we want it in safe places, sure, but close to places nice for sightseeing. Also, "tourist robots" connected via net to the brains would probably be a norm - for rich ones anyway. and poorer ones? Just high-tech version of slums. And you would need a non-jarred breeders to keep the species going. You know, as a backup.

Safety

For reach people, it's just like above. Close enough to interesting places for the lag to be unnoticeable.

But there also will be scientists in dangerous fields, heavy construction workers (experienced operators of dangerous machines) etc. For them, it makes sense to have brain kept safe. Their skills, knowledge and expertise is hard to replace. But you want them in mobile platforms, close to their job, wherever their job currently is.

Overpopulation

Let's face it, Earth is dying because there is simply too much of us. Rich people would "convince" masses that brain in jar is great! Less resources you use, good for Mother Earth! And you will be able to "have" all the things you always wanted!

In this scenario, facilities will be in visible spots, good for marketing, to convince meatbags to go for conversion. Safety hardly matters, as ones that are interested in the project does not go there anyway, but appearance of safety matters greatly. Expect cameras, fences etc. Everything as flashy as feasible, for good illusion.

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Will add more "whys" if I'll be able to think about them. Or comment with possible reason.

Answer 5

Assumptions

• Facility run by computers, facility constantly repaired and upgraded by computers and robots. Lots of tiny repairing spider robots.

• Lots of computers = lots of heat.

• Lots of brains in fluid in glass cases, can’t have the precious cases breaking. How long does a brain last out of its case?

• Brains need oxygen rich water and some sort of nutrient mix/bath to survive.

• all sites can be targets for sabotage (not necessarily will be, if everyone is a brain, in a virtual reality...who is doing the physical sabotage?)

  • you have a very VERY tough unbreakable firewall preventing hackers from sabotaging the computer's looking after the brains.

    • the computer system is not SKYNET

You have four main types of regions to look at for your site/s location…

(1) Space

Already mentioned…Have all the benefits of vacuum and zero-gravity

BUT

• Radiation

• micro-asteroids

• lack of local resources (where exactly does your oxygen and nutrients come from)

• travel cost and distance issue to transport new brains into facility

• missiles…

Space just doesn’t add up

(2) Air

You can have large floating air depositories for your brains. This will help avoid your problems with volcanoes, earthquakes shaking things up on the ground in your brain facility. These could be designed in any shape that is feasible/ imaginable but things to take into account:

• is your platform active or passive? ie does it float where the wind blows it or does it have control of it's actions?

• does it have big motors or does it have sails and big balloons of helium/hydrogen? Note: helium has less lift but is non-flammable. While hydrogen has more lift, but is kinda flammable (understatement of note!). Helium is also less abundant on Earth, as it escapes into space, which is why the airships never really took off in the past (pun intended).

• does the motors and computer equipment require fuel? what sort of fuel? solar would be better than relying on oil or natural gases. Especially if humans stored as brains is the result of overpopulation and resource scarcity.

• Altitude adjustment to avoid turbulent and stormy skies AND volcanic ASH clouds. Ash plays havoc with airplane motors which I learnt watching Dante's Peak as a kid, and the rest of the world learnt when Eyjafjallajökull erupted in 2010.

• Ensure that all sensitive equipment (and brains) are not fried if the platform/s are hit by lightning. Also helps if your ship is not too fill of flammable gases.

• If your air depositories have active control, they can guide themselves to landbased depots to pick up new brains. If your air depositories are passive and have no control of their actions, you will need drones to send/receive brains from all over the globe.

  • Centralised transit depots may still help.

  • passively controlled motherships may lead to tricky docking situations

So, all this kindof rules out air as a safe spot.

Extra thought, you don't have to have your brains floating very high above ground to avoid the effects of earthquakes. You could have them all attached to small balloons (or more practically a suspension system) so that they all hover a few centimetres to metres off the ground. I think you will still need to make sure the roof doesn't collapse on them, if there is a powerful earthquake.

(3) Land

As mentioned by you and other answers,

• try and avoid earthquake prone areas (California is out)

• try avoid volcanic prone areas (Japan and Hawaii - Pacific 'Ring of Fire' is out). This includes anywhere in the vicinity of yellowstone national park.

• try avoid rugged mountainous terrain as transporting tens of thousands of new brains a day will be treacherous!

• try avoid river plains as prone to excessive flooding every 100-1000 years

• try avoid coastal areas prone to changes in sea level!

• be aware that some land areas are actually rising/sinking/moving horizontally due to Glacial Isostatic Adjustment. For example, Scotland is rising, but southern England is actually sinking in response. The interior area by the North Sea is experiencing lift/rebound, so the coastline is actually sinking (sea level rise is faster than the rest of the world in these areas. Regardless of human induced changes or natural changes due to, among other things, the post glacial rebound).

  • If your facility has to last for tens of thousands of years, try avoid areas that may experience Glaciers! They carved up mountains, I doubt a few man-made structures will stop them.

• Your machinery and computers will be creating lots of heat, so try avoid already hot locations like Australia or most parts of Africa, unless you have sufficient excess energy for lots and lots of air-conditioning.

• Most Machinery rusts if exposed to oxygen and water, so try avoid moist tropical locations with lots of humidity/rainfall

• Deserts while dry, will need sufficient excess energy to cool down your machinery. Stored water would be best for this situation!

• Does the machinery and computer equipment require fuel? what sort of fuel? solar would be better than relying on oil or natural gases. Especially if humans stored as brains is the result of overpopulation and resource scarcity

  • In summary, don't go to too high a latitude as glaciers are a risk in the next few thousand years, don't go to the equator and tropics because it's too humid, don't go along the coast lines because of sea-level changes, don't go into the interior because lack of water to cool machines/computer down, don't go to the mid-latitudes as most of the large deserts are located there.

Essentially go to ...

(4) Water

I had already decided water would be the best place for your facilities when I saw the answer about the 1,5 million manmade whales! The point about the krill and plankton as a nutrient source was inspirational!

Water covers 73% of the Earth's surface, and that is not taking into account the volume of space the oceans are taking up! Create depositories that can float on/under water. This will negate the need to worry about earthquakes.

• Tsunamis, normally created by earthquakes, are only an issue when the shockwave travelling through the water reaches shallow coastlines. You do have reports of those freak standing waves that will overturn your Poseidon, but if you have your depository in a modular format (like a set of railcars) you should be able to survive the transit of the wave underneath you!

• Volcanoes already on land aren't too much of a problem in the sea, just ensure your floating depository doesn't barge into any areas where the lava is entering the sea. E.g. the Hawaiian Islands active volcanoes. Sea mounts erupting from the ocean depths, should be noticed by ships equipment beforehand; you shouldn't have any nasty surprise eruptions right underneath you! You should have time to row away...

Sea level is 'fairly equal' all over the world and any change in sea level won't affect your facilities out at sea. It's only a problem to those on the coastline!

The surrounding sea water can be used for cooling systems and provide water (fresh if you include a desalination plant on board). Salt DOES collect and jam up machinery, but if the robots looking after the brains can keep on top of it, they should be able to keep all vital equipment running ship shape (pun intended).

When bad weather comes in, and it will. You can have your depositories lower themselves to a depth below the wave height and just sit out the storm in peace and tranquillity.

Your machinery can use a combination of solar, and wind energy. They can also utilise the energy from the ocean waves themselves. Hey! If you have brains in jars, and interactive virtual reality...you can figure out wave energy!

TOTAL SUMMARY: There are pros and cons for wherever you choose to place your facilities; this is probably why they are safest in our bodies! I figure centralised transit depots will be required for whichever option you end up taking.

I am for the sea, then hovering, then land, then air, and then space.

Answer 6

I think competing storage centers will emerge. The “best” (as opposed to the cheapest) will be based on the same criteria as archivial document and file storage. This includes underground vaults in old mines.

Answer 7

An orbital station. In zero-gee, structural considerations would be less important, and engineering would be easier - on Earth, a building large enough to hold ten billion brains would take some serious architecture to keep it standing. In space, you also wouldn't have to worry about earthquakes or similar terrestrial natural disasters, and sabotage would be difficult.

Answer 8

Numerous locations in the outer solar system, particularly the Oort cloud, would be safer than any location on Earth proposed so far. When you're effectively immortal (isn't that ultimately the goal here?) you will want stability over geological time, which you won't find on any planet in the inner system.

Power can be generated by beaming microwaves from inner system solar collectors to outer system rectenna facilities.

Answer 9

I have thought of this as the optimal solution to prevent death from age, accident, and murder: to live in virtual places and/or through robots. this last one in case we ever find a way to have instant communication like quantum-entanglement communication. if that were possible we could create colonies practically anywhere, with little resources, to explore the cosmos and interact with other life forms without the danger of death, torture, pain, and boredom. I came to the conclusion that we should store our brains deep underground in moons and planets geologically dead in safe zones far away from stars threatening to become supernovas and mass ejections. each installation must be fully automated, capable of producing their own energy, like fision and fusion reactors and solar panels on the surface. and of course, every moon and planet must have multiple observatories and satellites pointing at all directions to warn of any incoming asteroids likely to destroy the power plants or affect the moon/planet in any way. and of course there must be huge armies and military posts to make sure no terrorist group or alien race threaten our very existence which, by being immortals, will have more value to us.

Answer 10

Location

Put them in Balloons on a gas giant around a small, stable star. There is plenty of space and with the density of the balloons you can easily manipulate the height. Gas Giants are also very long living. The ballons should float at a height, where the gas slowly gets fluid. This solves a lot of problems at once:

• cooling
• tectonic dangers (volcanoes, earthquakes, tsunamis)
• dangers from outside (even quite big astroids will barely reach that far and if so, the result will still not mess with the atmosphere that much)
• over time, smaller planets are more prone to break or be influenced by other planets. Gas giants are usually the ones who win.
• The heavy atmospheres of gas giants are full of hydrogen, which can be harvested as energy source
• small stars (red dwarfs like proxima centauri) are also VERY long living (trillions of years) and still give enough energy in close proximity
• there are tons of systems, that feature a gas giant close to a dwarf star, if not most of them in the outer milky way

Latency and dream-like state

Another problem mentioned was the latency issue: As soon as the brains are far away from each other, the latency would be recognisable. But this gets even worse, as soon, as your brain is in a dream-like state: They are way way faster, in processing everything, because they are not bound to the slow input from outside and can also skip everything unimportant.

On the other hand, as soon as you plug them into a VR, you can control their perception speed. If the machines control the perception speed dynamically, even crazy slow latency is no issue anymore.

Answer 11

Human beings are more than their brains. Actually, much more. Wilhelm Reich stated, about a century ago, that human memory resides MOSTLY in the muscular structure rather than in brain. This is corroborated by a myriad of studies in several fields of knowledge. So, the entire premise of the story lacks scientific/existential grounding.

Answer 12

Another way to answer this question materializes in a suggestion: on considering the complexities of mind, or spirit (in a hegelian meaning), envisioning a world where people downsized themselves to their brians, for survival reasons or just because they can do it, and therefore erasing a big part of their memories, the reflexions embedded in the story deepens a lot. And also could turn an already interesting premise into something even more interesting.
Let me know when your work is finished, will you?. I would appreciate that!

Answer 13

You write "(almost) all" - that 'almost' is critical to your plot.

10 billion Virtuals is a lot of people, but if you leave even 100 million Actual people on the planet, they will soon multiply and covet the resources used by the 10 billion, unless those resources are somehow locked away.

Or vice versa - the 10 billion will work towards self-improvement (aka building an apocalyptic AI), and covet the resources of the remaining 100 million.

There aren't enough resources in the Solar System to satisfy both groups. War will break out.

I won't give you any spoilers as to how exactly this all works, but the excellent story Ra, at https://qntm.org/ra, features a conflict between brain-in-vat Virtuals and non-converted Actuals. Read this chapter if you want the spoiler.