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Quick background, Cthulhu awakens. It feeds on valuable opponents so between delusions of defeating Him by attacking Him, and Him hunting down survivors Himself, when He leaves Earth ALL military forces in the world have disappeared, almost all technology too, and survivors are roughly half a billion. I know people says if Cthulhu awakens it's game over, but I love a bit of realism, no undercover agent (let's not forget this is what Cthulhu is: a high ranking priest sent into this universe from outside as a part of a multiversal mission meant to awaken azathoth) completely kills every bacteria after a nap in hut near a battlefield, so I expect He wouldn't care to actually exterminate us all, and I do not think its sheer existence would boil all our brains out, He's not Yog Sothoth at full power I mean.

Survivors will then split: the normal ones, the mutant (like zombies but more realistic), and the marauders. In what i labeled as the Dawn Wars, the normal ones will kill every marauder and mutant, creating a XVI to XIX century like technological society which will start anew, with a population of around 300 millions.

Ok now:

  1. all "natural born" soldiers are dead
  2. all survivors took part to a certain extent in the Dawn Wars so they had some kind of baptism
  3. No countries: only one huge nation, a United Earth Federation of Cities, all trade no wars (utopistic? No, I study psychology and politic and this story is also partially a pamphlet for me to show my conclusions)

Question:

How many soldiers is it likely that they should exist? Only intern police and bit of outside patrolling against potentially still existing mutants

Current percentage of USA military is of 0,5 % as far as I can read online, 1,5 millions compared to an overall population of roughly 300 millions.

I think my world would need much less, and, also, all those who had that actually inside of them, already enlisted (and died).

I live in a small, turistic, crime-less town where the overall of military force is 100 persons compared to an overall of 100.ooo population, so 1 every 1000.

Could it be fitting?

What you lads and ladies think?

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    $\begingroup$ So, your military is fulfilling both policing duties and what is basically animal control, yes? So, how dangerous are the wildlife/mutants? How accepted is the government? How law-abiding is the society? None of the background about Cthulhu actually matters, since the military's mission isn't to battle it, so I suggest you remove it and add details regarding the current threats/tasks - civil disturbances, possibly breakaway provinces, mutant threat level. (BTW, sceptical about feasibility of one stable worldwide government at 19th century or less tech) $\endgroup$ Commented Jun 5 at 12:00
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    $\begingroup$ Just to note that with 16th century technology, the travel time from Europe to India was about one year at best. No way to have a functional worldwide political structure with this kind of communication delays. $\endgroup$
    – AlexP
    Commented Jun 5 at 13:19
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    $\begingroup$ Also, who's feeding the soldiers? What tech exists for food production? $\endgroup$ Commented Jun 5 at 20:35
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    $\begingroup$ @vsz: Ugh no, before the 18th century regular trade voyages took about two years roundtrip. Basically ships could not cross the Indian Ocean against the monsoon, so that outgoing ships left Europe for Brazil—the Cape—the Mozambique Channel in October-ish to emerge in the Indian Ocean in April-ish, so that they could cross the Indian Ocean with the summer monsoon, then they did their trade, then they left India in October-ish with the winter monsoon to return to the Cape then proceed north along the western coast of Africa, arriving back in Europe at some time in the summer of year n + 2. $\endgroup$
    – AlexP
    Commented Jun 6 at 6:47
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    $\begingroup$ "let's not forget this is what Cthulhu is: a high ranking priest sent into this universe from outside as a part of a multiversal mission meant to awaken azathoth"- you are of course for worldbuilding purposes welcome to declare that. But it seems like from the first phrase that you are under the impression that this is some sort of canon Lovecraft description of Cthulhu. This is not accurate. $\endgroup$
    – JoshuaZ
    Commented Jun 6 at 12:20

5 Answers 5

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200 million soldiers

With almost all technology gone, they're gonna go back to subsidence farming, with almost everyone needing to farm to support humanity. That means military matters will be militias, with spears, rocks, or the scarce guns they have left.

As such, everyone would be trained, with patrols being arranged by local communities. Some would be exempt like high knowledge workers and pregnant women and the disabled, but most would be ready to fight if needed.

But everyone is also needed to farm, so there's not likely to be many dedicated soldiers.

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    $\begingroup$ I think This is about right if you count camp followers and servants, but you should probably mention tooth to tail ratio if that's the case. No way any community will ever have 2/3 of its population actually ready for conscription to combat arms roles. $\endgroup$
    – g s
    Commented Jun 5 at 19:08
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    $\begingroup$ Almost everyone will have to be both a farmer and a soldier post apocalypse. The tooth and tail are one. Also given their primitive tech and political unity, they have no real need to have a long supply chain. $\endgroup$
    – Nepene Nep
    Commented Jun 5 at 23:07
  • $\begingroup$ And you won't have anything like 200 million of them. $\endgroup$ Commented Jun 6 at 5:02
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    $\begingroup$ @NepeneNep - even more so, there is no need of a supply chain - the farmer-soldiers aren't going off on a campaign, they are defending their home village. $\endgroup$
    – Jon Custer
    Commented Jun 6 at 12:29
  • $\begingroup$ Yeah. You don't need much of a supply chain to throw rocks or spears at mutants while scavenging supplies or manning a wall. $\endgroup$
    – Nepene Nep
    Commented Jun 6 at 16:49
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Frame Challenge

Without a continued external Threat, you have no Military.

That is the purpose of the Military - to engage the enemy at the Strategic level: Country vs Country - but you have already articulated that there are no more countries.

The next purpose of the Military is to project force - against whom - you have no potential adversaries with which you would need to remind that messing around has a price that they may not be willing to pay.

You would end up with a system like Liechenstein - a Police force for internal security, a constitution that says that the Citizenry can be rallied to form a military force - but there would be no formal Military.

As an aside to Nepene Nep - There is a world of difference between Militias, tribal forces made up of merely able-bodied adults and a professional Military.

With a few notable exceptions: American Revolutionaries, Maori, Shaka Zulu (although you could argue that Shaka had the foundations of a professional military force) etc. everytime a professional army has encountered an irregular force - the irregular force have been absolutely stomped. Unless you mean a Militia like the National Guard in the US - then I would not consider them to be a Military force.

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    $\begingroup$ It is more accurate to say "every time a professional army has encountered an irregular force of similar size - the irregular force have been absolutely stomped." There have been tons of historical battles where mobs of poorly trained rabble have overwhelmed much smaller professional forces... but unfair fights that end in the expected one sided victory don't usually make the history books. $\endgroup$
    – Nosajimiki
    Commented Jun 5 at 20:25
  • $\begingroup$ Upvoted, with the noted exception that if a situation of imminent or actual civil war is in play then an actual military is needed rather than just a policing / tax collecting organisation. Myanmar today is a good example. $\endgroup$ Commented Jun 6 at 2:54
  • $\begingroup$ I think you'll need a bit of a military force anyway. Otherwise, what do you do when a local warlord decides to set up shop? The police won't be able to deal with them. $\endgroup$ Commented Jun 6 at 5:04
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    $\begingroup$ There is a t missing in Liechenstein, but I can't find another 5 t for the edit. $\endgroup$
    – Arsenal
    Commented Jun 7 at 13:34
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It depends on what culture(s) survive the apocalypse

The size and composition of a country's military has far more to do with cultural values and socioeconomic factors than it does with its actual size. While creating and maintaining a single world order can be done in many different ways, it is important to note that no land mass anywhere near as large as the Earth could possibly have a single distinct culture. Infact, most large nations today can be broken up into a number of different cultural zones which can make creating and keeping a unified identity in this one world order extraordinarily hard. This means that you will first have to resolve how your government will get your hundreds of global subcultures who all want different things out of thier governments to cooperate... which is really to say what culture will come out on top to impose its ways on everyone else.

While the common enemy aspect of the Dawn Wars time period might make a global alliance possible, cementing it into an effective singular world government in the aftermath will not be easy. So, what happens to the military afterwords is going to be based on who takes control of the peacetime propaganda industry.

To try to solve this problem you should first decide what parts of the World were most/least decimated by the Dawn Wars. Those that escaped least harmed will be far better at imposing thier will on the rest of the world than those that lost everything and were forced more into hand-to-mouth life styles keeping them from becoming politically active in the aftermath.

Once you know who the big contenders are, you need to find out how these peoples view thier militaries. In some cultures, the military is seen as a safeguard against intangible threats, while in others it is a thing that should only be there to deal with tangible and persistent threats. Some cultures see a standing army as a symbol of strength and solidarity, while others see it as a symbol of oppression. Some see it as a rite of passage for young people while others see it as oppressive to young people.

Ultimately the continued strength of your peacetime forces will be the object of propaganda more than any actual and immediate need, but that propaganda will be vital to making sure that you appease the majority faction(s) or else the confederacy will fall apart and you will not have a one world order scenario for very long.

Understanding your Limits

At the high end you have North Korea which requires 5-8 Years of Compulsory Military Service for all of its able bodied citizens. This puts about 5% of thier total population in active military service and 2.3% of thier population in reserves for a total military strength of 7.3% of thier population, but this is a really bad for North Korea's economy because it takes thier entire young adult population out of education and the workforce significantly limiting thier opportunities for effective higher education and heavy labor occupations. North Korea can only justify this large of a military through a combination of very specific cultural values, and it's position between the much larger and economically powerful nations of China, Russia, and Japan. It is very unlikely that a world order spanning many different cultures would abide such a large military unless the propaganda is really good at upkeeping the perceived threat of a renewed Dawn War era.

Then at the low end, you have 3 reasons why a country might have a particularly small military (under 0.2%). First you have countries that are too small or improvised to justify a functional military. These countries won't really apply to a one world order scenario because they tend to be breeding grounds for cartels which would go against the one government idea. Then you have countries that are geographically isolated and in good enough political standing with thier neighbors to not see a need for a large military. Canada is a good example of this with only 0.18% the total population in the military. Third you have counties with too large of a population to need to commit a large % of people to military. India for example only dedicates 0.1% of its population to military despite having the second largest military in the world. So, they see 0.1% as enough to serve the need. It is likely that your world government will take an approach similar to India or Canada if your world government pushes the narrative that the world is safe, that the Dawn Wars are a thing of the past, and that the likelihood of future wars is negligible.

Then in the middle you have countries where military service represents a way to give opportunities to an otherwise struggling lower class. In places like the United States (0.4%), military service is still voluntary, but participation is notably higher. In countries like the USA, the propaganda is that joining the military is a good way to uplift your future. So, even if your world government does not see an immediate military threat, it could choose to maintain a significant military due to the economic and welfare opportunities created by the military industry and powerful special interest groups that profit from keeping it well maintained.

Lastly, you have the citizen soldier model. This idea is not very common in modern warfare because modern weapons and tactics require too much training, but if technology regressess enough after the fall, it could be possible for your country to revert to a large standing militia where 10% or more of your population has a legal obligation to arm themselves and respond a draft if called upon, even if there is no standing army.

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There are problems

You have a planetary population of 300,000,000. It's a worldwide population. Using a linear reduction, that means the population of England was reduced from 55.98M to 2.1M. The population of the U.S. from 333.3M to 12.57M.

Globally 25% of the population is under 15 years of age and 10% is over 65. That leaves 65% of the population (195M people) to supply your workforce and your soldiers.

  • You can't run the existing infrastructure with so few people. Less of that infrastructure than you might imagine can be re-tasked to a lower population. There's simply too few people and too much planet with too many constructs (e.g., by 1899 buildings, dams, power plants, chemical factories, lumber mills, mines, farms... in the 1500s you had muskets meaning manufacturing, mills, mines, farms...). It almost forces the population to collect into 5-8 city-states, leaving most of the planet fundamentally unpopulated.

  • According to the world bank, 25% of the world population today (all worker-age) is dedicated to agriculture — feeding themselves and everyone else. Yes, that's spread across highly automated countries and locations that are still using shovels. Still, as an average,that means 75M of your 195M workers are dedicated to food. Now you have 120M.

  • Your society will require administrators, teachers, raw material acquisition (e.g. mining), infrastructure (heat, water, sewer, transportation, communication...), medical, research, construction and manufacturing.... It takes a LOT to smoothly run a society of any appreciable size without substantial crime (or a whomping good religion, of course, Cthulhu...). Even if we look back at some of the really large ancient cultures (the Chinese, the Mayans...) you see a large number of people dedicated to keeping things running. I can't find hard numbers for this one, but let's be really optimistic and say 40% of the population. Now you're down to zero available population for military service.

  • And keep in mind that military service isn't free. People make the clothes, the bandages, the weapons, even the horses aren't bred by the military itself. Soldiers are there to fight, not weave cloth, blacksmith, or breed animals. The more your soldiers must do this the less valuable your soldiers are in a fight. (Or, at least, less professional....)

Having said all that, I can imagine a military of 100,000 to 500,000 max. A military is, from an economics point of view, a luxury. It's something you can afford and the history of many fallen nations can be traced in part (if not entirely) back to policies that spent overwhelmingly on the luxury and little to nothing on needs like feeding your population.

The greater the economic strength of a nation, the more it has to spend on a military without impacting the stability of its society. If you want a bigger military than this, you need to rationalize a stronger economy.

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  • $\begingroup$ Did you read the question? What do you mean, "existing infrastructure"? The poster said 16th to 19th century technology level. $\endgroup$
    – Jedediah
    Commented Jun 6 at 3:45
  • $\begingroup$ @Jedediah Good catch! I did note the time frame, but got a bit ahead of myself. The issue is still relevant. By 1899 you have electricity, power plants, dams, etc. In 1501 you have aqueducts, sewers, maintenance of everything from estates to castles, roads... You still have a bureaucracy and that bureaucracy is still engaged with the process of society. By the 16th century you have muskets and canons, meaning manufacturing and its attendant needs for everything from books to security to transportation. I'll update the Q, but the point is still very relevant. $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Jun 7 at 2:03
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Not More than 150,000 (And Probably Lots Less)

If you have guaranteed there are no zombie-equivalents and no marauders and one world government, then there isn't anyone to fight. Internal police will guard the peace, meaning you only need an army to suppress rebels. However... Full-time soldiers with no wars to fight are dangerous to the government they serve. So the bigger/more powerful your army the more likely it is a coup will happen. Full-time soldiers are also EXPENSIVE.

Britain had on average 150,000 soldiers in its army between 1710 and 2000, leaving aside the massive buildups for the two world wars. It only topped 100,000 in 1810-1820, where it hit 200,000, then down under 100,000 again until 1860. Granted that's not a planet-wide Empire, but it's also an empire that was fighting almost all the time during that period. And by almost all the time I mean "depending on how you view it they were ALWAYS at war somewhere." So I think this would be something of a highest possible number. The total population or percentage of military per capita doesn't really matter when you're talking about minimums. The US has 300 million and an army of about 1.5 million in 2024 (.5%). But in 1860 it had an army of 16,000 and a population of 31 million (.05%) because that's all the army it needed.

So if your one-world-government is TRUELY in charge, with no marauders or zombies and a whole world to fix, they're not going to want to spend the money. Oh sure they might have a few ceremonial regiments and maybe a little force standing by for counterinsurgency work, but it's likely that you're talking as small a military as they can get away with so they can spend taxes on more important things. Like secret police and farm equipment.

What your government WILL have lots of is police. Local police, Federal police, secret police, all SORTS of police. But police and the military are different things designed to accomplish different tasks. Any military/police force that tries to do both is historically TERRIBLE at at least one. Sine your government needs good cops but not good soldiers, the smart bureaucrats (if that isn't a contradiction in terms) will be all for police and won't want to spend on fancy soldiers they have no use for.

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    $\begingroup$ You say 16th-19th century tech level will have 1) lots of police, and 2) little overlap between police and military? That is profoundly ahistorical, and I'd want your answer to specify why you believe a reconstituted society would end up that way. Most "police" in that era were functionally bodyguards to local magistrates/administrators or guards of important roads and buildings, frequently with extremely porous boundaries between that service and military. $\endgroup$
    – Jay McEh
    Commented Jun 5 at 20:11
  • $\begingroup$ Of course it's ahistorical, future postapoc is NOT history. You can take history as a guide but so would literally all of the people involved in the postapoc wasteland. So, if they had any brains, they'd know a large military would be bad. And a police force with military functionality would also be dangerous and less-good at policing. They'd ALSO know that "private police" were a danger to OPs centralized government control. So even though you might have those at ground level you'd want National Police to oversee them, and probably at least one level above THEM for bigger/more complex crime $\endgroup$
    – 30Keydet
    Commented Jun 6 at 23:36

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