Timeline for How can a creature have an efficient bird like respiratory system without hollow bones?
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
25 events
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| May 21, 2022 at 0:58 | comment | added | John | @Nosajimiki that's not how air sacs work, they don.t do a lot of gas exchange they are about controlling the air flow to keep the airflow in the lungs one way while allowing inhalation and exhalation through the trachea. you may want to look at my answer to see just how much of the body cavity is taken up by air sacs. this may help asknature.org/strategy/… | |
| May 20, 2022 at 21:44 | comment | added | Nosajimiki | @John the relevance of the bones is that they permeate the core of the organism going interior of all the major muscle groups. Soft tissue air sacs can not function in many of same parts of the body as bones can; so, while more air sacs give you more surface for oxygen exchange, they will not give you airflow directly to the underside of the muscles to help them stay cool while you burn all that extra energy. | |
| May 20, 2022 at 2:03 | vote | accept | Chickenpeep | ||
| May 19, 2022 at 21:31 | answer | added | John | timeline score: 4 | |
| May 19, 2022 at 21:17 | comment | added | John | @Chickenpeep you misunderstand some dinosaurs had air sacs, some of those had pneumatic bone but not all dinosaurs with air sacs had pneumatic bone. you can have air sacs without pneumatic bone, pneumatic bones is not required to have air sacs, even in modern birds most air sacs are not in bone. | |
| May 19, 2022 at 21:15 | comment | added | John | @Nosajimiki the pneumatic bones in birds helps because they are air sacs not because they are in bone, the placement in bones is more or less irrelevant. | |
| May 19, 2022 at 19:20 | comment | added | Chickenpeep | @Nosajimiki I've already thought about the cooling issue with other aspects of the critter. Though my universe does use magic, it is a hard magic system that's basically just having the ability to push mass and energy around, so I still use physiology as we know it. Probs either shape shifting some sails or partial reclamation of heat into usable energy. Or maybe a bit more normal would be a location where the heat is siphoned into and expelled. I'd always rather use regular biology workings, but magic is a backup for if I just can't properly make it work normally. | |
| May 19, 2022 at 19:01 | comment | added | Nosajimiki | @Chickenpeep There are other ways to increase oxygen intake (see my answer below), but the biggest limitation will be the secondary thermal regulation benefits of pneumatic bones. Achieving the 7-8x metabolic rates like you see in birds produces a lot of heat. Your animal will need a really good method of keeping cool while exerting itself to be viable, but that may be a topic of a separate question. | |
| May 19, 2022 at 17:28 | history | edited | Chickenpeep | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| May 19, 2022 at 17:26 | comment | added | Chickenpeep | @Nosajimiki any way around it? Is this creature's absence of flight factoring in at all? Can it still function without the bone space? | |
| May 19, 2022 at 15:35 | comment | added | Nosajimiki | @Chickenpeep They make up about 1/2 of a bird's respiratory intact surface. | |
| May 19, 2022 at 15:03 | comment | added | Chickenpeep | @Nosajimiki how essential are those? | |
| May 19, 2022 at 14:06 | comment | added | Nosajimiki | @John While there may be a bit of a mix-up in terminology, the hollow bones in a bird do help facilitate oxygen intake. The term I think the OP was looking for is pneumatic bones. | |
| May 18, 2022 at 22:33 | comment | added | Chickenpeep | @John actually I just looked it up. Some dinosaurs do have hollow bones | |
| May 18, 2022 at 22:22 | comment | added | Chickenpeep | @John well my understanding is wrong then | |
| May 18, 2022 at 22:19 | comment | added | John | many dinosaurs had air sacs and no hollow bones, hollow bones evolved later, nothing living is like this but then only one living group has air sacs and they are the dinosaurs evolved for flight and thus extreme weight reduction. even in birds most of the air sacs are not inside bones. | |
| May 18, 2022 at 22:16 | comment | added | Chickenpeep | @John oh that's good. Animals with neither or both are all I'm aware of, so I wanted to make sure that hollow bones weren't required, like if air sacs needed so much space that it had to replace things. | |
| May 18, 2022 at 22:06 | comment | added | John | you don't need hollow bones to have air sacs... | |
| May 18, 2022 at 22:01 | history | edited | Chickenpeep | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| May 18, 2022 at 21:53 | history | edited | Chickenpeep | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| May 18, 2022 at 21:18 | answer | added | Nosajimiki | timeline score: 3 | |
| May 18, 2022 at 21:09 | comment | added | addaon | Not directly relevant to the question, but you might find that balancing a theropod without a tail is a challenge. Those tails played a major role in locomotion. If nothing else you're completely changing the hips. | |
| May 18, 2022 at 20:58 | answer | added | addaon | timeline score: 6 | |
| May 18, 2022 at 20:58 | history | edited | Chickenpeep | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| May 18, 2022 at 20:26 | history | asked | Chickenpeep | CC BY-SA 4.0 |