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I'll try my best to make this not so nonsensically long and give you the basics with brevity. I'll be summarizing ALOT. In the beginning was an entity known as the Eternal Sovereign, a being whose mere existence creates. It created two beings known as the Honest and the Dishonest among the mortals. The Dishonest to scorn her father cursed all mortalkind with a darkness upon their soul, an intuitive ignorance, a subjugation of the mind to the body called the "thorn of dishonesty".

That's the foundation for the system. The idea is that all things have a soul or spark but mortals have an immortal spark. The idea is that a group of mages or "magic men" have found a way to restore the intuition of the immortal spark just above the hypodermis exists a physical manifestation of the immortal spark's energy called the "layer of light" by tattooing the light they can re-orient the spark and re-subjugate the body to the mind. Now by doing this the energy of the immortal spark seeps out and fills the scars upon the body causing them to glow.

The problem I'm having is logically and metaphysically how can this give an individual magical power. I want magic to be a choice and equal, no one is stronger or weaker but rather creativity is what gives an edge. Is this enough info or is the rest of the magic lore needed? Thank you for taking the time to read my nonsense and have a good day.

This part will be rather long.

There are fundamentally three parts to mortal beings: the immortal spark(self), The Mind(choice), and the body(desire). Originally while still in touch with the Sovereign and the Aeons they had a proper intuition that guided them in congruence with their nature but after the Dishonest's curse they became a walking metaphysical contradiction. That is to say, they were a painted canvas among the divines the Dishonest destroyed the artwork and the "magic men" have to very painfully re-paint the canvas.

This "unlocks" their magical potencies. They now have the power to manipulate other things' emanations(the energy within the spark) and to channel it using emotion or reason creates different effects. Such as using a fire emanation has the ability to create fire in a particular spot or to specialize it instead, using emotion can give a firecracker like concussive explosion or reason can be used to create a short range laser-like flame, shorter but far more dangerous.

While, channeling they store the foreign energy within their own emanation and the energy begins to convert their own immortal spark's emanation dramatically increasing it's power. This is called hardening. The harder the foreign energy gets the more damage to the body the release can do. If it ever reaches 100% hardness this creates a potency event using fire as an example this incinerates the individual and can destroy nearly forty thousand miles of land from the concomitant release.

My issue is I'm trying to create a system using Gnostic mysticism and Stoic philosophy that choice is your greatest power and self-discovery gives power, that is to say self-discovery equals suffering and I think that is a proper approach as all suffer. How can I properly express that in the system or should I start over?

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    $\begingroup$ Please clarify your specific problem or provide additional details to highlight exactly what you need. As it's currently written, it's hard to tell exactly what you're asking. $\endgroup$
    – Community Bot
    Aug 21 at 2:35
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    $\begingroup$ I believe you forgot some punctuation marks "." From "The idea is that a group of mages or "magic men"..." and up to "they can reorient the spark and re-subjugate the body to the mind". This makes it quite hard to understand ^^', can you readd them by editing your question? $\endgroup$
    – Tortliena
    Aug 21 at 2:36
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    $\begingroup$ Then, I'm not exactly sure what's your problem here. What is actively preventing you from telling that people who gained the glowing thorn of dishonesty have access to and are all equal in magic? I believe -but I could be wrong!- that we'd need to know more about how people cast magic in order to see the problem. $\endgroup$
    – Tortliena
    Aug 21 at 2:45
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    $\begingroup$ To be honest, this already makes perfect sense to me. I'm not really sure what the actual problem is? $\endgroup$
    – elemtilas
    Aug 21 at 3:52
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    $\begingroup$ Hi and welcome to the forum. I know it’s a bit intimidating at first, but we have a place where you can develop your question into a quality post. Try visiting the Sandbox and post it there, experts will help you phrase the question to get the answers you need. If this question closes, you can post your update and try to reopen it. $\endgroup$
    – Vogon Poet
    Aug 22 at 4:35

3 Answers 3

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Have two separate magical systems, ritual magic and innate magic.

Gnosticism is all about hidden knowledge of the divine. If you know the names of the Eternal Sovereign, their servants, their works, you can use careful rituals to gain some degree of magic. This requires extensive work negotiating with seeking hidden knowledge from the magical beings, and is the base form of magic. It relies not on your own divine spark, but on supporting the magical beings with service and getting boons.

This avoids any issue of dishonesty or such, but allows careful knowledge gathering, creativity, and use of rituals to do some magical feats. Power is about self sacrifice and giving your all to often erratic and moody magical entities.

Innate magic is painful.

Having each person being a planet destroying threat is a bit much. Have it instead work that magic is erratic. Because of the dishonesty it's hard to control your emotions and the spark depends heavily on your emotions. If you are too angry or happy or sad it will act erratically and hurt you. Anyone who seeks power needs to be able to push through the pain and be stoic so they can master their emotions and perform.

This magic is much more controllable than ritual magic because humans do it, and doesn't rely on sacrifices. The more you discover about stoicism the better your magic is.

To add a visual element to this, you could let people store spells and such with painful tattoos. Your ability to endure pain limits how many tattoos you can have.

Make the Dishonest and Honest a constant threat.

Don't have superior reason make it so that stoics just ignore the fun background element. Have it constantly working to corrupt people, and the stronger you get the more it tries to break you. If you lose control, especially when reaching a higher level of power, the Dishonest will possess them, give them a mythical magical form, and carry out their evil goals and desires.

Only by continuing to learn, improving your philosophy skill, and getting better at handling bad emotions can you grow in power. Or to put it another way, by listening to the teachings of the Honest, the first Stoic, the wisdom they spread to the world about how to control your emotions and mind.

Those with greater power tend to teeter between the two, the easy path of the Dishonest that lets you lie to yourself, indulge your whims, and get easy power with the sacrifices in the future, and the Honest, which means hard work and discipline and tight moral control to stay on the straight and narrow. Some great figures manage to retain some control and become avatars of the Honest or Dishonest, and can have massive influence on the world.

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  • $\begingroup$ I see where you're going and I like the idea of ritual magic. However inherent magic is fundamentally against the concept I have in mind. Most people cannot use magic as it is an extremely painful process to tattoo the Sovereign's designs upon the Immortal Spark and subjugate the body to the mind allowing magic. The thorn of dishonesty only applies to the untattooed but the tattooed still are tempted and plagued by the memories of the corrupt intuition but they can still resist the corruption in a superior fashion compared to the layman. $\endgroup$
    – AmericanSon
    Aug 21 at 11:02
  • $\begingroup$ As for the potency event I see what you mean by it's ludicrous nature but it's primary purpose was as a limitation not a mainstay threat for the narrative. What do you recommend as a serious threat and limitation for them. As their emotions are mostly easy to control thanks to the process but I want a limitation for their powers. Perhaps they can instead be possessed by these sparks and become a kind of magical berserking beast? Just guessing on this part. Tell me what you think? $\endgroup$
    – AmericanSon
    Aug 21 at 11:07
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    $\begingroup$ When I say inherent, I don't mean that anyone can use it, just that it's in the person. In terms of the dishonesty, it's pretty boring worldbuilding if the cool background feature of the dishonest suddenly goes away for everyone interesting with magic. Why not have the struggle against the dishonest be a constant struggle for all, so magic is hard and difficult to master. The more power you tap into, the greater the corruption, and the greater the need for stoicism. $\endgroup$
    – Nepene Nep
    Aug 21 at 11:18
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    $\begingroup$ I gotta say that @NepeneNep has a cool ideia to balance those, making being a Master of the spark a double edged sword as it should be, since you get close to the Eternal Sovereign, and your power grows, tempation is stronger,maybe in the latter stages you can either get possessed by the Honest or Dishonest to gain knowledge ? $\endgroup$
    – Or4ng3h4t
    Aug 21 at 11:30
  • $\begingroup$ I see, thank you for the insight. I misunderstood what you said at first but I see your point now. I still need to be careful about being complacent with any idea that strikes me. How about this instead, the the process does not eliminate the thorn of dishonesty as it is an affliction of desire that spreads to the mind but rather counteracts creating a sort of equilibrium that must be tipped toward one or the other but now what are the effects of tipping one way or the other? $\endgroup$
    – AmericanSon
    Aug 21 at 22:22
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This might be a different take from what you are thinking but ill risk it.

What if when people "unlock"(Through the tattoos) the shard they just open themselvs to another plain of existance ? what if with training and experience you become closer and closer to being like Eternal Sovereign, but because we are humans we can never become it and can only acheive either Dishonest or Honest, hence why powerfull practicians need stoicism not to fall in the ever present drag that Dishonest creates (I mean with magic you can do pretty much "anything" so why not make yourself stronger richer etc. ?) or Honest (With stoicism you can keep your though in line and create good for everyone).Im using these names but when it comes to power of Honest/Dishonest will be way more powerfull, but you sort of align with them, as is our nature to align with our environment.There really isnt a black and white choice, its a cluster of smaller choices that end up pulling you towards X, as if the shard left some "residue" or imprint to mark what you use magic for.

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    $\begingroup$ THAT is VERY good. I want to treat understanding of yourself and understanding of life as something known but ineffable similar to being or virtue. In the land of the mages there are five moons that represent the process. The Blood-Red moon Potestas representing Power and Passion, The Ocean-Blue Moon Minerva representing wisdom and self-mastery, The Gold-Yellow moon Veritas representing Truth and Virtue, the Icy-White Virtus representing Courage and honesty, and lastly the Ebony-Black moon Achlys representing pain and cruelty, they can't let their pain roam free it must always be subjugated. $\endgroup$
    – AmericanSon
    Aug 21 at 23:31
  • $\begingroup$ As for the idea of being like the Honest and dishonest I like that idea but I also want a balance that you are an individual but also are a part of the family of Aeons within the Eternal Sovereign's Pleroma. However I really like the idea of raw power being based on character and stoic practice used to keep it in check. $\endgroup$
    – AmericanSon
    Aug 22 at 0:09
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    $\begingroup$ Thank you, glad i could be usefull. $\endgroup$
    – Or4ng3h4t
    Aug 22 at 8:20
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Circles of power

Or rather, any image that has a meaning for either the mage that bears it, or worldwide, or crypted, or whatever. Or plain revealed by divine. Your mages in desire of having their magic do something special device a set of instructions forming either a circle of power, a rune, a word, or practically anything meaningful, then they touch or otherwise activate that image with their mind or body, in order to release a "spell". Thus, the most creative mage would be able to harness powers to their desire, gaining advantage over those who don't fully employ this art.

Painting such an image first time might not be easy, if you'd desire to pack a lot of them by making them smaller you might end up with sparks instead of fireball, etc, you are to design here. Some mages could even combine those images into something larger, invoking powers of a part or a whole could produce different effects. Anyway it'll make art of spellcraft exactly that. Probably there could be interactions with body or mind, so that copying an image verbatim would not exactly work as it did for the source.

Regarding divine part, I think you can even stop over here, say "divine only gives this ability, to master it you have to employ your own mind". It's like here with the conscience, everyone has it but many neglect and some just never use it, but with magic that grants visible benefits.

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    $\begingroup$ I really appreciate your comment friend. However, I'm somewhat confused as to if you're suggesting a new framing or if this is a refinement? As the general idea is that they don't use meaning per se, as much as create it. They channel the foreign energy I.E. the concept of say, a flame and then they frame it using emotion(using force) or reason(concentration and compression) so as to impress it upon reality such as expressing the flame as smoke instead of as its natural form. Can you explain a tad more what you're suggesting as it feels somewhat vague? $\endgroup$
    – AmericanSon
    Aug 21 at 5:43
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    $\begingroup$ The energy is foreign, the images are to give it shape or specify (the major part of) intended action, as in "FIREBALL!", the image provides instructions (via mind maybe, or via other means) for the energy to take the form of a fireball and fly, the mind and/or body gestures provide the initial vector of flight. $\endgroup$
    – Vesper
    Aug 21 at 6:07
  • $\begingroup$ Now I see what you mean. Tell what you think of this concept. The foreign energy has a nature as it isn't molded by the castor but rather an aspect of it is focused upon. If the energy or emanation found within the spark of a flame is taken it can only create heat-based magic effects, such as burn, laser, white-hot, smoke, boil, etc. By subjugating emotion to reason while channeling they specialize the effect that is more potent such as a white-hot flame but if reason is subjected to emotion the range is increased in exchange for potency such as an explosion or humidity. $\endgroup$
    – AmericanSon
    Aug 21 at 6:24
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    $\begingroup$ Doable, why not. However consider if the caster lacks control, is possessed by extreme hatred or anger and calls for fire/heat. Should he not go in a blaze of glory with whatever is in his vicinity? $\endgroup$
    – Vesper
    Aug 21 at 7:03
  • $\begingroup$ While channeling the foreign energy it begins to harden in the castor's immortal spark if it hardens to 100% they trigger a potency event. Using fire as an example they create essentially an impact event that can char tens of thousands of miles of land within minutes. This is why the mages teach that the body must be subject to the mind as bodily desires are never-ending and uncontrollable while the desires of the mind are self-contained. Their fellow mages can defend from it but they can't protect an entire continent. Do you think it's coherent or have I erred somewhere? $\endgroup$
    – AmericanSon
    Aug 21 at 7:26

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