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I'm new here and know very little about chemistry.

For the sake of a story I'm building, especially with symbolism, I'm having a fire person and a water person coexist in a romance. However, I'm using real world phenomena to help demonstrate it. I'm finding it easy to have water "live with" fire in some ways. Like thermite and other things "burning" underwater, undersea volcanoes, and hydrothermal vents. I also found this thread: What metal would burn steadily in a water lamp? Thanks to the addition of calcium carbide, a fire could technically be on top of water, as a reverse. But I'm not sure how long the two would last together. I'm finding it very hard-pressed to find other equivalents for water on a larger scale. The closest I found was a "lake" in the Halema'uma'u crater of Hawaii's Kīlauea volcano, but it wasn't exactly active (and technically not water). There's the other obvious combinations resulting in steam and the creation of cooled rock for islands, but they're over with almost instantly. I was wondering if there were other possible ones I may have missed. Like, is there any other physical ways for water to be next to fire without the two cancelling out?

Plus: How viable is the following? A scene I wanted to try involved a pool of water and waterfalls in a volcanic rock cave or cavern area with fire on top, yet not extinguishing. I figured maybe an additive of some sort could act as fuel for the fire and keep it perpetually going. Could a cycle involving evaporation help? If not full on waterfalls, maybe a sort of "rain"?

If something's not clear, please let me know.

Edit: Just bringing this back around with some more questions: While there are many ways to create fire from water, in what ways can water come from fire. So far I have only found one source in all the web that shows a way here.

And is there a way for water to sort of rest on top of a fire with immediately burning away? I wondered if intense pressure could keep water in a liquid state?

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  • $\begingroup$ You know you can make lenses out of ice, and out of lenses you can make fire... $\endgroup$
    – Zautech
    Commented Mar 6 at 7:54

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Water vapor is still water, though in a gaseous phase. And, literally speaking, romance can end up in something hot and steamy.

As long as the temperature is below a few thousands degrees, water won't dissociate

At the very high temperature of 3000 °C more than half of the water molecules are decomposed, but at ambient temperatures only one molecule in 100 trillion dissociates by the effect of heat

and if you increase pressure, you can still keep liquid water at temperatures above 100 Celsius: the critical point of water is at 22 MPa and 647 K.

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  • $\begingroup$ "...something hot and steamy." --- Should this be tagged [sex]? ;))) $\endgroup$
    – elemtilas
    Commented Mar 8, 2021 at 8:56
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why not use lithium or sodium? those can burn water (albeit more like exploding) the excess hydrogen then rises, reacts with some chemical containing oxygen, makes more water, which then precipitates back down. as long as you can find a way to break down the LiOH into lithium and monohydrogen monoxide, then reacting with the hydrogen again, then you have a sort of exploding water cycle based around lithium. this reaction all together should make it appear as if they water is burning.

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Your world isn't based on modern chemistry/physics, but an older model called the Aristotelian elements. These are the familiar "earth, air/wind, water, and fire" which are a mainstay of various fantasy stories and Dungeons and Dragons and the like.

The model itself makes for compelling stories, and modern understanding of science doesn't detract from those (in my opinion). Dungeons and Dragaons even did interesting things with it, describing the entities that were born at the intersection of any two of those planes ("smoke" elementals at the air and fire boundaries, and so on).

But I've not really known of any that try to marry it to modern chemistry, with which the these ideas are not just incompatible, but seem ridiculous.

You might do best to just ignore nitty-gritty details and "go with it".

If that's not good enough, I suggest to you that burning hydrogen (which doesn't result in flames quite as visible as other substances) produces water vapor as its combustion product.

But really, this question threatens to invite answers based on Bubble Guppies and SpongeBob, where the protagonists regularly carry around open flames underwater.

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  • $\begingroup$ sigh I know. It's a big challenge but I'm curious as to just how far I can stretch the realism before it becomes asinine. After all, chemistry on its own in the real world can come dang near close to "magic" with all it entails. But I'm willing to just "go with it" if I must. I know there's only so far one can go before things get ridiculous anyway. $\endgroup$
    – Thunderhammer
    Commented Aug 5, 2021 at 21:51
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Love triangle.

Somehow this idea has lodged in my mind

The fire: destroys everything by burning, but fire produces two new things. Lifeless carbon dioxide... and water. Fire makes water. The fire is an agent of destruction and might be seen as evil, but out of the destruction comes empowerment for water.

The green: creates new life out of what is not alive but in the process, destroys water. Water is consumed to make green life. Green life might be seen as good, but life requires the destruction of water, which in making life ceases to exist as water.

I do not think this story can have water choosing the one or the other. Fire and the Green hate each other, but water must move between them for the cycle to continue.

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  • $\begingroup$ I actually did consider a love triangle, but not like this. Interesting! $\endgroup$
    – Thunderhammer
    Commented Mar 10, 2021 at 2:39
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Your question reminded me of this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFbt60j6cYk

Where methane formed from rotting vegetable matter under the lake became trapped under the ice and then once lit burns until the methane is gone.

If the methane comes from a natural gas source it could last thousands of years.

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  • $\begingroup$ Interesting, thanks for this info! $\endgroup$
    – Thunderhammer
    Commented Aug 8, 2021 at 2:04
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Your water person contains ethanol. The fire person depends on them to live. The more intense the contact, the more intense they are.

But the more he lives, the weaker they become. The water person will not die, but will become smaller as their alcohol content goes away and their water content evaporates due to temperature.

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  • $\begingroup$ Interesting take. I'll definitely consider it! $\endgroup$
    – Thunderhammer
    Commented Aug 5, 2021 at 21:49
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If by water as in water vapor then yes. If by water you mean liquid water however, it gets complicated, as it could be possible depending on the pressure.

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  • $\begingroup$ So what are you saying? That water if under enough pressure can actually lead to fire? If so, that's interesting... $\endgroup$
    – Thunderhammer
    Commented Aug 5, 2021 at 21:15

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