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So, in this alternate Europe, there are some obvious differences. First off, the Baltic Sea is no longer a sea, but now the Baltic Plain. Also, the Low Countries are absent entirely. There are only two mountain ranges in this alternate Europe--the ones we'd be familiar with are things of the far distant past. The northern range is 18,510 feet above sea level at the tallest, and the southern range has a maximum current elevation of 22,837 feet above sea level. The lighter brown blobs are just the resulting uplifts.

(Pay not attention to the black on the far right--they are not relevant to the upcoming question.)

Finally, you may notice that Turkey and Iran are missing. That's because in this alternate Earth, they never exist physically.

The most common answer I get on the question regarding the consequences of turning the Baltic Sea into the Baltic Plain is that I'd subject Scandinavia to a drier, more Arctic climate. And with no other mountain ranges dominating southern Europe, there'd be no doubt that more of Europe would have a Mediterranean climate.

But how much more?

Regarding the geography of this map, at what point in Europe will the Mediterranean south give way to a north that is more similar in climate to Canada?

  • 2
    $\begingroup$ Hello John, you used to ask similar questions a couple of years ago. I wrote then and I still think that climate science is so complex that you won't get useful answers on a board like this. $\endgroup$ – o.m. Sep 17 '18 at 5:19
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    $\begingroup$ "Similar in climate to Canada": Canada extends over 40 degrees of latitude... $\endgroup$ – AlexP Sep 17 '18 at 7:04
  • $\begingroup$ @o.m. Then why do you have a "climate" tag in the first place? $\endgroup$ – JohnWDailey Sep 17 '18 at 13:47
  • $\begingroup$ Are the Alps completely missing, but you do have an extremely tall, but small and isolated southern range? Is Gulfstream the same in this world? $\endgroup$ – Alexander Sep 17 '18 at 18:18
  • $\begingroup$ @Alexander The Atlantic is 1350 miles wider than back home, and Mont Forel in Greenland is the North Geographic Pole. The southern range in the map are the alternate Alps, at least in regards to cultural significance. $\endgroup$ – JohnWDailey Sep 17 '18 at 20:27

I'm afraid there will be no mediterranean climate as we know it any longer. Without the alps, climate will be more similar to the climate in the central states of the USA: Heavy snow storms from the North can enter the "mediterranean" area without hindrance, and warm air can move north in the summer.

With the loss of Turkey and Iran, the "Eastern mediterranean" region will have a large enough area of warm water to sustain tropical storms like hurricanes.

On the other hand, loss of the Baltic sea will have only minor consequences.

  • $\begingroup$ Evidence or citations for your claims? $\endgroup$ – ubadub Sep 18 '18 at 3:58
  • $\begingroup$ This is what I wanted to write. Without Asia Minor (aka Anatolia, or "Turkey" for the querent, who misuses names of countries for geographical entities), the Levant and Mesopotamia (which the querent calls "Iraq"), the southern sea is no longer a mediterranean sea. Plus the querent blindly copied a map the actual Europe without thinking of the effects of the postulated changes; for example, the Danube can no longer flow on its present course, so the entire Danube Delta would be a gulf... (The Baltic Sea is shallow and narrow; it has little effect on the climate of the surrounding lands.) $\endgroup$ – AlexP Sep 18 '18 at 6:17

This is a bit of a comment, but it won't fit into 60 characters and it is a bit of an answer, too. If you look at the two answers by jknappen and TheShadowOfZama, and especially the comment by Alexander, you see that climate questions have complex answers with plenty of expected and unexpected side effects. One said no change, the other said no mediterranean climate ...

In my answer to this question from you, I explained why questions of adding a mountain here, deleting a country there are impossible to answer with any precision.

You mention in a comment that the Atlantic is 1,350 miles wider. Don't you think that the Gulf Stream has a lot to do with European climate as it is now?

Grab something like the Educational Global Climate Modeling. Play with the settings. If you run a very long simulation (many centuries, not just a few initial years) you will see quite different output for "small" changes in the initial data.

  • 1
    $\begingroup$ This does not provide an answer to the question. To critique or request clarification from an author, leave a comment below their post. - From Review $\endgroup$ – Clay Deitas Sep 18 '18 at 4:44
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    $\begingroup$ @ClayDeitas, this is not the first time John asked "impossible" questions and explaining why there is no answer should count as an answer. More decimal places to his fictional geography won't help. The link I provided might. $\endgroup$ – o.m. Sep 18 '18 at 4:49
  • $\begingroup$ It would have been better if you explained about butterfly effect or something probably. Like you said above 90% of this should basically be comments. $\endgroup$ – Clay Deitas Sep 18 '18 at 5:00
  • $\begingroup$ When is “that's not possible” an appropriate answer? $\endgroup$ – a CVn Sep 18 '18 at 14:23

I am not an expert, but I don't think the changes you made are going to do much to increase the reach of the mediterranean climate. The changes will mostly benefit the Western European oceanic climate. Also known as the Marine West Coast climate.

The removal of the Low countries means more of Germany and maybe Poland will get a Marine West Coast climate. The removal of the alps means Switzerland will get more Marine West Coast climate.

I dont' think the mediterranean cimate will gain much ground. Climate zones in Europe

To be fair I think on your world the mediterranean climate is smaller due to the fact places like the levant are gone. If you want to increase the mediterranean climate making the world warmer will probably help more than removing mountains.

I found this video that gives a good idea of were the Mediterranean climate will mostly occur. Mediterranean Climate region


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