In my universe, in the early 21 century, a neo-nazi movement gains track and eventually takes over a country, and eventually the world through war (third world war). But this is no ordinary nazi party, their ideology combines racial identitarianism and genocide with libertarianism.

Puting it simple, in a diverse society their ideology dictates genocide and authoritarianism until a homogenous society is achieved. And for homogenous societies people live under libertarianism, with free market and freedom of speech. Control of the people and their opinions is achieved with extreme propaganda.

This party does not prefer any race and there are black african nazis and white german ones in their respective countries.

Time passes, and humans reach the stars, colonizing Mars and eventually Venus, so assume large total population, maybe some 20 billion humans one the three planets combined.

Eventually, the party softens and becomes less, well, evil, and accepting of differences, less use of propaganda and more respectful of human rights. The die-hard racists and nazis leave and create their own new party. Let's call the new party NEW and the old OLD.

My question is: As I would really like to use the swastika to represent the bad guys (the NEW), like in real life, how could I justify this 'liberal' nazi party (the OLD) dropping the use of the swastika?, and maybe even changing flag?

This liberalisation of the OLD was a gradual, maybe 50 years proccess that occurred in peace times, no more wars happened after WW3.

Key points:

  • There are is a communist party and libertarian party
  • The NEW party is basically the real nazi party from our world
  • The population in general, due to brainwashing with propaganda, likes the concept of Nazism, Hitler and the swastika, as they associate this symbol as the one that 'freed' them from democracy.
  • This new flag would be used in all countrie's local Nazi Party (the OLD)
  • All countries still use their flags from today, new ones usually don't use the Swastika
  • In each country, as stated before multiple parties exist, but only one rules
  • The parties that are not in power (currently only the OLD are in power) only have seats in (their countrie's) congress
  • The OLD party uses the same flag as they did in our world

closed as primarily opinion-based by Mołot, L.Dutch, Alexander, sphennings, Justin Thyme Jan 29 '18 at 20:06

Many good questions generate some degree of opinion based on expert experience, but answers to this question will tend to be almost entirely based on opinions, rather than facts, references, or specific expertise. If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.

  • $\begingroup$ So, basically this boils down to "Can I use the Swastika as a symbol for my new next-level-nazis?", right? There is no need for OLD to use that symbol. Or both could use it. Or neither. There is nothing preventing either way - they just need to be different. Maybe OLD used a white symbol on black background or green on purple or whatever colour scheme you like - and NEW uses a different one. I don't see what prevents NEW from using this symbol - but you as the author should be careful about using the symbol because of the associations, especially depending on your target market. $\endgroup$ – Secespitus Jan 29 '18 at 19:10
  • 2
    $\begingroup$ They have people for this called "brand image consultants". Political parties do this all the time. $\endgroup$ – StephenG Jan 29 '18 at 19:12
  • $\begingroup$ I need OLD to drop the swastika, because I want to paint them as good, and an example of how human nature will eventually oppose the evils that nazism brings. And I want NEW to adopt it. The question is justifying OLD dropping it, not NEW adopting it. $\endgroup$ – Ravi Mattar Jan 29 '18 at 19:21
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ If I correctly understand, the party is White supremacist in Germany, but Black Supremacist in Nigeria? But if so, is it really one party? $\endgroup$ – Luís Henrique Jan 29 '18 at 19:28
  • 5
    $\begingroup$ What makes the parties "Nazi" parties? Sounds like they've evolved an awful lot. Can't just bunch all socialist parties in together as Nazi's. $\endgroup$ – Lio Elbammalf Jan 29 '18 at 19:31

Political symbols represent ideology, not methodology.

Your "Old Nazis" have a very different ideology than the nazis of the NSDAP of the 20th century. While the NSDAP had racial purity as one of their core doctrines, yours has libertarianism. Genocide, propaganda and authoritarianism aren't ideologies by themselves. They are means used to enforce ideologies. And they were and are still being used in the name of many different ideologies. Your group might use the same methods as the NSDAP did, but they use them for completely different reasons.

Because the ideology of your "Old Nazis" is so different from that of the NSDAP, it would not make any sense for them to reuse NSDAP symbolism, including the swastika. They would want to adopt different symbols from the start to separate themselves from the NSDAP and not confuse anyone (including their followers) about what their agenda is.

For your "New Nazis", on the other hand, it would make sense to re-appropriate the swastika as their symbol, because they consider themselves the revival of a long forgotten ideology. Just like the NSDAP appropriated symbols from old Germanic tribes.


The way I see it you've said that the base template for the party was Nazism and that the (now) old party diverged from a few of those ideas.

The New Nazi's sound like they're trying to go back to that WW2 Nazi template and will use the original Nazi flag to make that statement.

As is often the case an ideology that inspires revolutions doesn't often survive contact with actual civilisation. Your original party found that when they became rulers of their own, the New Nazi's may find that as they put their society together on mars (or perhaps not, since they get to create a society from scratch, rather than impose an ideology on a pre-existing society).

  • $\begingroup$ But how can I make the old party change drop the swastika or change flags without losing support? What would the party official's excuse for change be so that they don't lose support? $\endgroup$ – Ravi Mattar Jan 29 '18 at 19:45
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ They have diverged from the original party. Perhaps once they all had Swastika's but as they evolved the different parties rebranded to differentiate themselves. It is only once all others have stopped using the swastika that the new party can use it to make themselves stand out. $\endgroup$ – Ludo Jan 29 '18 at 19:52

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.