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The Voswuinian Mastiff has a similar build to the English Mastiff. It was bred to protect livestock from predators such as the Voswuinian Liguar. The Liguar has the overall build and musculature of a Liger and behaves very similarly to Jaguars. Voswuinian Liguars are massive, with average adult male Liguars reaching lengths of 16 feet 6 inches (5 meters), and can have a bite force averaging 2 times stronger than a Liger’s.

Given what I’ve said about them both, how big would a Voswuinian Mastiff need to be in order to have a chance of surviving being attacked by a Voswuinian Liguar?

For reference on the nature of the attack, the Liguar got a bite on the back of the Voswuinian Mastiff’s neck and a slash on both of the front legs.

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    $\begingroup$ A chihuahua could survive that, or a dog twice the size of the cat might have died. We'll need more details to narrow it down. $\endgroup$
    – Monty Wild ♦
    Commented Sep 22, 2023 at 2:14
  • $\begingroup$ Yeah, I really don’t know what more I could give as far as details. $\endgroup$
    – Godzilla Louise
    Commented Sep 22, 2023 at 2:23
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    $\begingroup$ Liguars are solitary hunters, just like Jaguars. Liguars are basically scaled up Ligers that behave the same way Jaguars do. There’s more to them than that, but that’s the basics. $\endgroup$
    – Godzilla Louise
    Commented Sep 22, 2023 at 2:32
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    $\begingroup$ "The Liguar [...] behaves very similarly to Jaguars." Are the trees extra-strong there? $\endgroup$
    – Andrew Morton
    Commented Sep 22, 2023 at 17:02
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    $\begingroup$ @AndrewMorton no, that's why Voswuinian Liguar are also known as splats. $\endgroup$
    – John
    Commented Sep 23, 2023 at 1:25

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It's very difficult to say if a dog of a given size would survive a bite to the back of the neck and a slash on both the forelegs. Given that dogs have loosely-attached skin, a toy-sized dog might survive this... or a giant dog might have died.

However, there is another standard by which this situation can be judged, and that is the standard of the mindset of a solitary predator. These animals rely upon their health to be able to hunt, and if they are injured, they may easily die from starvation if their injury prevents them from hunting successfully. So, for this reason, real (as opposed to Hollywood) solitary predators are cowardly by human standards. They can't afford not to be.

So, by this standard, a dog - which is a pack hunter, and need not be cowardly due to having pack-mates to help if it gets injured - is a serious threat to a liguar if the dog is big enough to cause an injury.

So, we don't need some huge, horse-sized monster of a dog, we just need something big, loud and toothy enough to give the liguar pause and make it wonder how many friends the dog has and when they'll arrive. If the cat manages to injure a lone dog, but fails to kill it, it would likely retreat as soon as the dog manages to inflict an injury in return. That means that the dog need only be big enough to do so.

So, my guess is that the dog could be half the linear dimensions of the cat, and 1/8th of the mass (because of the square-cube law) or even smaller, and still be a reasonably effective deterrent against these cats. The more dogs are present, the smaller they could be and still be an effective deterrent.

So, if the dog in question has a number of pack-mates, it need only be big enough to cause an injury.

So, if we have a cat that may be around 2 tons given its linear dimensions, a 250kg dog should be more than enough of a threat to make the cat consider other prey. If the dog has pack-mates, maybe as little as 2 or 3 100kg dogs might be effective.

We can speculate that the Voswuinian Mastiff would be a dog with a particularly large, long head, a large gape and long teeth so as to be able to inflict as damaging a bite for its body mass as possible, without being too big. Very large dog breeds tend to be slow and lumbering and have shorter lifespans, and they also have to be fed, so the lighter the better.

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    $\begingroup$ If you've ever seen a cat playing with a mouse - what looks like sadism in human terms actually isn't. The cat needs to make sure the mouse is unable to injure its face, especially eyes, once it closes in for the final bite. Cats are trying very hard not to get injured. $\endgroup$
    – Guntram Blohm
    Commented Sep 22, 2023 at 11:08
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    $\begingroup$ @GuntramBlohm: That would be an entirely more convincing claim if cats didn't repeatedly pick the mouse up in their teeth before dropping it to play with it some more. $\endgroup$
    – Jack Aidley
    Commented Sep 22, 2023 at 12:35
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    $\begingroup$ @JackAidley Domestic cats behave a bit differently than wild cats because they have been bred for pest control; so, they will kill even if they are not hungry, and play with the corpse if they are bored. Wild cats generally do not exhibit this behavior, and show a greater degree of caution when confronted with an animal that turns to fight them. $\endgroup$
    – Nosajimiki
    Commented Sep 22, 2023 at 13:27
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    $\begingroup$ @Nosajimiki also domestic cats and dogs both have built in pack mates who will care for them if injured. Namely their humans. $\endgroup$
    – candied_orange
    Commented Sep 22, 2023 at 19:07
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    $\begingroup$ @Nosajimiki actually most cats play with prey and corpses but mostly when they are not hungry, so well fed domesticated cats might just be doing it more because they are well fed. Lions and tigers are both known to kill prey when not hungry and not eat it, ussually it is low threat prey, but this behavior is surprisingly common among mammalian predators. Thee is even an evolutionary reason for it, behavior that favors opportunistic hunting decreases chances of going hungry and thus will tend to spread. $\endgroup$
    – John
    Commented Sep 23, 2023 at 1:40
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Starting Reference - the Rhodesian Ridgeback

This is a Dog that was bred to fight lions. The first thing you'll note is the breed standard is around 40 Kg. An African Lion is about 190 Kg.

From the measurements you've given your Liguars are about 50% larger than a Lion, So using some dodgy Maths (something something Cube law something something) - to have an equivalent size/weight relative to your liguar, a Rhodesian ridgeback equivalent sized dog would be around 60-80 KG - which is realistically in your Mastiff/Newfie/Mountain Dog/Rottweiler range for weight.

This is basically upscaling the real life equivalent.

In terms of your fight - the key thing is where the bite lands, a Big cat's bite is aimed to severe the spine/neck - which regardless of how big or small your Dog is - if that happens, it's game-over.

Apart from that - everything else is one of those 'Size of fight in the dog' scenarios - which you as the author can control.

Plenty of instances of Dogs doing things we would consider 'courageous' whilst wounded.

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    $\begingroup$ Dogs who had to fight off wolves in order to guard sheeps in the Alps/Pyrenees (France) were typically equipped with spike collars to protect them from bites to the spine, and typically had very fluffy fur, which both make them seem bigger than they are and make it harder for an assailant to injure them or hold onto them. See the article on Patous for further inspiration. $\endgroup$
    – Matthieu M.
    Commented Sep 22, 2023 at 9:53
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    $\begingroup$ Liguars are more like twice the linear dimensions of a lion, so about eight times the weight. $\endgroup$
    – Monty Wild ♦
    Commented Sep 22, 2023 at 10:47
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    $\begingroup$ Don't use dodgy math, use doggy math instead $\endgroup$
    – GuilleOjeda
    Commented Sep 22, 2023 at 15:11
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    $\begingroup$ @Blueriver - I find that Doggy Math calculations are only good for Ruff estimates. $\endgroup$
    – TheDemonLord
    Commented Sep 22, 2023 at 20:40
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If the bite didn't sever or damage the spine, the dog will probably be ok. I've seen dogs with horrific injuries from machetes heal and live even without treatment.

The size of the dog isn't what matters, it's more about the whereabouts of the wound.

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  • $\begingroup$ Damn, I really don't want to know where u saw that $\endgroup$
    – Or4ng3h4t
    Commented Sep 28, 2023 at 9:35
  • $\begingroup$ @Or4ng3h4t Burglars here carry machetes for dogs, and there's no vets. If they survive you bandage or sew them up and hope for the best. Sad, but rather the dog than one of the kids or the wif. Lost a few dogs over the years. $\endgroup$
    – Kilisi
    Commented Sep 28, 2023 at 18:34
  • $\begingroup$ God that's something i never thought of, no vets ? Damn. $\endgroup$
    – Or4ng3h4t
    Commented Sep 29, 2023 at 9:04
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    $\begingroup$ No vets that will fix your dog, there are people who will put it down for you for a few hundred $\endgroup$
    – Kilisi
    Commented Sep 29, 2023 at 10:12
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If you want some extra survivability, look at what Honeybadgers can achieve.
A large smart earth-normal Honeybadger feeling extra mean could possibly deal with a V. liguar before breakfast.
Or, as breakfast.

Biting or slashing them anywhere is probably a bad idea.
They deal with the most dangerous animal on earth, an African Water Buffalo, by biting off their genitals so that they bleed to death.

If your V. liguars are not well armoured in that area the V. Mastiffs may find this line of attack profitable. A largish earth normal one with a good battle plan may suffice.

The 6 Mastiffs that I met in China at the Big Flying Goose Pagoda in Xian would not dream of letting me get close enough to their cages to assess their capabilities :-) .
At night they let them out.
They have no problems with intruders.

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No, the Voswuinian Mastiff is dead, blood is sprouting from its wound in the back of the neck. Both its front legs don't work, and there is the equivalent of a Liger (1000 pounds) on him, your dog has 0 chance of surviving the weight and a wound made by a neck bite.

Unless it knows Kung Fu, in that case, all bets are off.

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