Timeline for How does this microbe recognize specific chemical patterns?
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
17 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Jul 18, 2023 at 19:29 | comment | added | Gault Drakkor | How is this not: How does intracellular signalling function? Eg how does an amoeba recognize and move towards food? How does a cell coordinate cellular division? This reads to me as a asking a real world biology question. | |
| Jul 16, 2023 at 17:59 | comment | added | JBH |
@MS What sort of cellular/molecular structure would allow for that function to occur is the stated goal of the OP. Please take the time to read questions more thoroughly. And I know enough about biology and organic chemistry to know when an OP is asking a question about the subjects that's out of the OP's depth.
|
|
| Jul 16, 2023 at 14:17 | answer | added | David R | timeline score: 2 | |
| Jul 16, 2023 at 10:20 | comment | added | M S | @JBH I've noticed that whenever you come across a question about biochemistry, your default assumption is "this person is asking for exact and in-depth explanations about everything related to anything surrounding this topic", regardless of the OP's stated intentions. That sure seems like bad form... | |
| Jul 16, 2023 at 9:55 | answer | added | AlexP | timeline score: 2 | |
| Jul 16, 2023 at 6:58 | comment | added | ErikHall | I think you are trying to apply computer logic to cells. Which, dosnt work. Computers work because our giga brains came up with it. But in the world of Microbiology the shape of a protein is what determines its function. In your body, cells "know" what to do because any given shape of signal proteins has a "hard coded" response. I think this is called the "Complex System" but i am not sure. Regardless, 0s and 1s dont mean much even in a computer. You need a way to interpret them. Otherwise there is no difference between an Image and a text document. | |
| Jul 16, 2023 at 6:18 | comment | added | JBH | ... The interpreter that chemistry doesn't comprehend, only the human, and the processor which is purely the manipulation of electrons, not ones or zeros. Now apply all that to biology (because a biological computer is what you're trying to achieve at a ridiculous level of detail) and you instantly run into the problem that the human mind can comprehend binary, but not a cat's mind, much less a microbe. So you're talking about a synthetic creation, an invention - not a worldbuilding rule. Anyone who could provide the detail you appear to be looking for would be running to the patent office. | |
| Jul 16, 2023 at 6:15 | comment | added | JBH | The edit doesn't help. Humans comprehend and respond to patterns. Chemistry only responds to chemistry. I'm a EE. If you asked this same question from the perspective of doped silicon you have massive problems. (1) silicon doesn't know what a zero or a one is. (2) The answer can be provided at several levels of abstraction - and you don't know what they are or how useful they are to you. (3) A description at the level of physics would mean nothing to you (I guarantee it). (4) Starting from binary, there is required to be at least two levels of creation: (*Continued*) | |
| Jul 16, 2023 at 6:03 | history | edited | maisaur | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
added 100 characters in body
|
| Jul 16, 2023 at 5:45 | comment | added | JBH | To the extent that science can actually be applied to it. We're here to help you develop rules for your world - not to develop those rules for you. You've provided a description that's nearly meaningless, expecting the respondent to provide the input, the output, and the chemical mechanism by which those two things are processed. That's too vague by half. Stack Exchange is not meant to replace an education and I doubt you have the skills to judge a best answer. Therefore, please provide the specific expectation for an answer, a specific input, and a specific output. | |
| Jul 16, 2023 at 5:42 | comment | added | maisaur | @JBH to what extent does a Q&A need to be “science-based” need to apply for the tag to fit? I’m seeking “science-based” as in utilizing known fundamentals/rules and examples of real-world biology and chemistry, rather than conforming to rules within a fictional or invented system. If it needs to be more specific than that, e.g. using specific chemical behavior by name or not being able to include hypothetical or “alien biology” concepts that still generally conform to known biological fundamentals, let me know and I will alter the tags | |
| Jul 16, 2023 at 5:39 | comment | added | maisaur | @JBH for an answer I was for the most part just expecting a potential real-world analogue or example, for some function in cells used to sense chemical balances or changes in an environment, and if a similar function may be used in this fiction creature to evaluate a “pattern” of chemical inputs or changes over time. The input itself could start as something patterned like a set of electric pulses, be “turned into” chemical signals as described, and expected response may be, let’s say, the activation of certain proteins to open channels in the membrane and export a response signal of its own. | |
| Jul 16, 2023 at 3:58 | comment | added | JBH | What are your specific expectations for an answer? Are you really on a site with a stated goal of imaginary worlds asking for something that someone with a PhD in organic chemistry might have trouble answering to the expectations of the tag? To be fair to respondents, can you provide a specific, exact, and factual "input" to your microbe and an expected response by the microbe so respondents can work with real chemistry rather than vague ideas? | |
| Jul 16, 2023 at 2:42 | history | edited | maisaur | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
added 8 characters in body; edited title
|
| Jul 16, 2023 at 2:39 | comment | added | maisaur | @AlexP (1) Shoot I just KNEW there was something not quite right as I typed it…will amend. (2) I did consider a physical/chemical “lock and key”-type model for it but I wasn’t certain of the amount of complexity for recognizing multiple specific patterns, adding up to a rather wide variety but still with specificity, would be able to be “contained” structurally in an organelle or protein complex. If it needs to recognize a huge amount of patterns, can those thousands of unique “lock” or “key” shapes all fit in there? That’s part of why I first thought of it as “reading” more than lock and key. | |
| Jul 16, 2023 at 2:10 | comment | added | AlexP | (1) One bacterium, many bacteria. (2) When a key is inserted in a keylock, there is a mechanism which senses the pattern of teeth or whatever on the key and responds by either unlocking the mechanism or by doing nothing. But the keylock mechanism "doesn’t actually have a conscious mind", so how can it "be able to recognize a given pattern so that the programmed response can be determined"? (3) At the lowest level, life is a complicated set of interlocked chemical reactions. A reaction either happens or or it doesn't. If it does, then in produces some results, which go to the next step... | |
| Jul 16, 2023 at 2:00 | history | asked | maisaur | CC BY-SA 4.0 |