Timeline for Reality Check: Medieval economics - could peasants ban rent?
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
26 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
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| Oct 11, 2021 at 19:28 | comment | added | Tomás | Of course it will come back to bite them, all the organizers and promoters of this new social system will be tracked down and publicly executed after being denounced by adepts of the old regime under the crime of theft of nobles property and usurpation of nobles dignity. Only the "faithful" figures would be given anything similar to a benefit or opportunity after the nobles come back in charge. In a similar vein, any nation trading with the rebels would be target for retaliation and public smearing. | |
| Sep 26, 2021 at 14:31 | comment | added | David R | Unfortunately, in most cases, new freedmen argue among themselves as to what the new social structure should be - enough that they are not prepared for the person who comes in and conquers them. Look at the French revolution. They spent a long time arguing over the new constitution only to have Napoleon overthrow it within months. | |
| Sep 25, 2021 at 21:20 | comment | added | Goodies | I've been searching for RW examples. Probably large scale peasant revolts did not occur before 1300 in Western Europe. In late medieval times, revolts did happen, in Flanders (1302) against France and Burgundy, and the Peasant's Revolt in England in 1381. For inspiration, ref en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peasants%27_Revolt and en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Golden_Spurs | |
| Sep 25, 2021 at 19:32 | history | became hot network question | |||
| Sep 25, 2021 at 18:01 | answer | added | Otkin | timeline score: 3 | |
| Sep 25, 2021 at 16:01 | answer | added | Mary | timeline score: 3 | |
| Sep 25, 2021 at 14:45 | answer | added | ProjectApex | timeline score: 5 | |
| Sep 25, 2021 at 14:07 | comment | added | user535733 | If the new freedmen expect that the King intends to reconquer in some future campaign, that's not social-experiment time. That's prepare-for-war time. Select leaders, plan a strategy, stock food, recruit allies, raise cash, obtain weapons, construct fortifications and defenses, train militia, create a communications network, etc. Lots and lots of work to do right now. The survivors can argue about ownership if they win. | |
| Sep 25, 2021 at 13:35 | answer | added | Nepene Nep | timeline score: 5 | |
| Sep 25, 2021 at 10:28 | answer | added | Kilisi | timeline score: 10 | |
| Sep 25, 2021 at 9:24 | history | edited | Adam Coville | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Sep 25, 2021 at 9:22 | comment | added | Pelinore | But it's still hard to imagine the people now running things believe they can get away without some form of tax & wouldn't be putting something in place to replace the land rents (unless there are already other taxes?) unless they firmly believe they've no chance against the king & are just mucking about until he gets there rather than seriously trying to organise & run themselves, a simple gate tax for goods coming both in & out of the city would work (the farmers will want to sell their product & buy crafted goods they can't make themselves, so, in the city, works well as an indirect VAT). | |
| Sep 25, 2021 at 9:20 | history | edited | Adam Coville | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
Look guys - I am happy to rephrase or clarify but honestly at this point I'm starting to think its not worth it
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| Sep 25, 2021 at 9:12 | comment | added | Pelinore | Oh! & maybe move that "Note:" at the bottom to the top directly under the headline question, putting it there with the additional info that you're only asking about the few months required for the king to get his army into gear will help people read the rest in the right frame of mind / frame of reference. | |
| Sep 25, 2021 at 8:59 | comment | added | Pelinore | "to clarify -- the King is going to attempt to reconquer the rebellious land. But due to winter and logistical reasons the soonest that can be started is 6 months later. In the interim, the rebels will have a free hand to conduct their social experiment." // Could you add a shortened version of that to your "Note: military / strategic and external factors .. not at issue" // would have saved me reading all the comments up to that one of yours to understand it's only that short interim period you're asking about :) | |
| Sep 25, 2021 at 8:00 | comment | added | AlexP | P.S. The 3 million newly made small land owners will not volunteer their labor and their food. If the city dwellers want to eat they will have to pay for the food. If they want to dig a ditch, they will have to pay for the labor. If the city wants to exploit the peasants, it must subdue them by force. Yes, there were cities which were at the top of the feudal hierarchy; Venice comes to mind. | |
| Sep 25, 2021 at 7:59 | history | edited | Adam Coville | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Sep 25, 2021 at 7:48 | comment | added | AlexP | I'm not sure that I understand this question. What I get is that some 3 million peasants rebelled and now consider themselves owners of the land they worked. OK, it happens. I don't understand why the Very Large City supported them, but OK, fine, for some strange reason the Very Large City supported them. Now you have 4 million people in open rebellion against the king. Great. There will be a war. Who will win is anybody's guess; for example, the Americans rebelled against their king and won. But one hundred years later some Americans rebelled against their President and lost. | |
| Sep 25, 2021 at 7:30 | comment | added | Adam Coville | to clarify -- the King is going to attempt to reconquer the rebellious land. But due to winter and logistical reasons the soonest that can be started is 6 months later. In the interim, the rebels will have a free hand to conduct their social experiment. @DWKraus you are correct that they do want something in exchange for what they're providing so it isn't obligation free. I am hoping specifically for some insight into the economic soundness / unsoundness of this and things that might go wrong with it absent external factors | |
| Sep 25, 2021 at 4:40 | comment | added | JBH | ... It's worth noting that on Earth the peasants eventually did "ban the rent." We have scenarios like the French Revolution. But this took place when there were both enough people, enough military support, and enough of a balance between the "firepower" of the people and the "firepower" of the nobles that it couldn't be stopped. | |
| Sep 25, 2021 at 4:39 | comment | added | DWKraus | Live rent-free in exchange for military service and labor to maintain the town + other benefits? How is that not rent in medieval times? It's not a percentage of the crop, but close enough. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck... | |
| Sep 25, 2021 at 4:39 | comment | added | JBH | This would be the correct use of the reality-check tag, but it's missing the rules of your world to compare the scenario against. Asking whether or not the scenario compares to Real Life is forbidden by the tag (because that's not what we do here). So, as @sphennings mentioned, what are the rules of your world? The reason it didn't happen on Earth through most of the Medieval period is that the nobles had their armies and the peasants didn't. Pretty easy to fix the problem when you own all the guns. How would the peasants stop the nobles in your world? (*continued*) | |
| Sep 25, 2021 at 2:37 | comment | added | Adam Coville | I guess it was just to double check if the rent serves any higher purpose or whether it is simply a patronage mechanism? For instance, would this make it harder to buy/sell/build new dwellings in and around the city or make it harder somehow for peasants working the field to convert crops into cash or other goods they need? This is sort of like the Native American communal ownership model where the land belongs to the tribe. | |
| Sep 25, 2021 at 2:11 | review | Close votes | |||
| Sep 25, 2021 at 17:16 | |||||
| Sep 25, 2021 at 1:48 | comment | added | sphennings | This reads like you've built your world and are unsure how a scenario in your world will play out. Unfortunately without knowing every narratively relevant element, can't definitively answer your questions. You'll have to write your story and tell us. For instance the whims of the rulers of the city will play heavily into how your questions get answered. | |
| Sep 25, 2021 at 1:37 | history | asked | Adam Coville | CC BY-SA 4.0 |