Timeline for Is there a way to keep science from ruining tribute magic?
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
15 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
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| Apr 21, 2019 at 5:47 | comment | added | Megha | @Echox - While I think that would be tried (keeping people uneducated to use for wishing) I think it wouldn't become a big thing, because I don't think it would work. "Uneducated" isn't meaning doesn't-know-science-but-is-otherwise-malleable, after all. I think the missing piece is little-kid-logic, that is, people will come up with their own thoughts or reasons or causes, and there's no reason they'd map onto what the manipulators wanted - and the kid or the god-of-wishes could manipulate the wish to a monkey's paw (not what they meant) or just not want that wish, then it goes badly | |
| Jan 29, 2019 at 17:42 | vote | accept | Lonha | ||
| Jan 29, 2019 at 17:41 | comment | added | Lonha | Your final point is interesting. Such a development could very well be a possible solution. Magic itself is incapable of sustaining a population of 7 billion. A comment under the question pointed out that the population in the world should have been 300 mil based on the tech level. The more technology develops, the higher the population. Magic would eventually become too weak to use as a cheat to make discoveries. using magical sight to view bacteria would be impossible in a certain amount of years, which would cause a catastrophe in the scientific world if the microscope wasn't invented yet. | |
| Jan 29, 2019 at 14:24 | comment | added | Pilchard123 | On the other hand, point 1 might make scientific knowledge allow more mana-efficient wishes. If <person> knows <rules> (for some combination of person and rules), then <person> would probably know that "god can do anything that other rules prevent" is itself a rule. A child might think "a flying pig is super-duper extra-hard to do even for a god because I've never seen a flying pig" and have to use more mana. An adult may just think "eh, it's god stuff" and consider it easy. | |
| Jan 29, 2019 at 14:10 | comment | added | Suthek | @Flater Sounds like the premise for a manga. MC stumbles upon naive little girl in the street and takes her in; turns out she's the most powerful spellcaster in the world and hunted by various organisations. Now there's the moral questions if MC should start educating her, thus diminishing her abilities, or leaving her as she is with her powers intact. Also throw in some apocalyptic event that only she can prevent with her (mostly) full abilities for extra drama. | |
| Jan 29, 2019 at 8:38 | comment | added | Liesmith | @Abion47 That's correct; however their changes couldn't be as extreme. They can't make a sword appear out of thin air, but they could wish for a precise amount of carbon to be moved from a lump of coal into an iron smelter to form the desired grade of steel, with negligible mana cost. | |
| Jan 29, 2019 at 8:12 | comment | added | Flater | @Echox: Or, as an alternative exploit, wise mages egg naive children on to wish for something the mage wants. If the "naive discount" is larger than the mana surplus that a human can have (from being gifted at magic), then it's cheaper to do so. | |
| Jan 29, 2019 at 0:05 | comment | added | Abion47 | I would argue that there is a flip side to point 1. If someone who is scientifically literate makes a wish, they will have a finer understanding behind the mechanics of how that wish would manifest, so they could easily gain the ability to make their wishes more mana-efficient, not less, by wishing for things to be made or assembled in a specific way and to only do things that they couldn't trivially do themselves. e.g. Instead of wishing for a bolt of lightning, they could wish for a large difference of electrical charge on two surfaces and just let natural processes take over from there. | |
| Jan 28, 2019 at 22:02 | comment | added | thegreatemu | +1! Heinleinn's "The Cat Who Walks Through Walls" could do so because he was too young to know that he couldn't | |
| Jan 28, 2019 at 16:46 | comment | added | Liesmith | @jeffronicus The pigs fly only through magic; they don't fly on their own. The study of biology would still be useful in a world where magic can't do everything (ie, trying to directly cure an infection might not be possible, whereas an antibiotic could easily handle it). A biologist would necessarily learn the mechanisms and limitations of organisms when magic is not enhancing them. | |
| Jan 28, 2019 at 16:43 | comment | added | Liesmith | @Echox, I was imagining that it would take actual intent, as well. You can lead a person to knowledge, but you can't make them learn. Similarly, you can try to keep someone ignorant, but a genuine thirst for understanding will trump that. Especially if the magic is being dictated by a sentient being. | |
| Jan 28, 2019 at 16:07 | comment | added | jeffronicus | If your biologist grows up in a world where some pigs actually do fly, is his or her knowledge of "the rules" going to be that firm? | |
| Jan 28, 2019 at 15:32 | comment | added | Nepene Nep | I'm not sure this makes the setting work the way they'd want. Factor 1 makes uneducated murderhobos, factor 3 encourages war and mass murder and genocide, and 2 isn't a major limitation. You could, say, use a wish to grant you sight of the tiny and learn about bacteria to bypass this. Coupled with the genocidal uneducated murder hobos, this isn't going to work well for people. | |
| Jan 28, 2019 at 13:10 | comment | added | Jemox | Your first point is very interesting but then people will harvest this phenomenon. Powerful mages will be raised with a very low education to be even more efficient, so you'll basically end up with your most dangerous people being the most ineducated. The consequences must be very interesting but I'm not sure anyone would want that. I still upvoted though. | |
| Jan 28, 2019 at 10:57 | history | answered | Liesmith | CC BY-SA 4.0 |